When submitting do dealers get better grades

Boothill40

I've read numurous letters in Coin World from folks who feel that they could send in the same coin as a dealer and the Dealer would get higher grades as the grading services have a bias towards Dealers, do you think it has any truth to it or is it just folks who are digruntled with grades received let me know your thoughts---Tom

p8nt

Dealers don't get better grades. Dealers waste their money resubmitting the coins until they achieve the higher grade that one time. Collectors could do it too.

Boothill40

Thanks , I haven't had any problems but I see alot of letters in Coin World alleging that and was just curious what other collectors thought---Thanks Tom

p8nt

The above is my opinion. There are people, even here on the boards, with grade-noia.

rec78

i think that a dealer with a large submission like 50 or more coins at a time will get some higher grades-some but not all..i also think that a major auction submission of a lot of coins say, hundreds or even thousands of coins will get some higher grades--granted that some will be because of the big lot of coins submitted the time for judging each and every coin will be very limited and some will be due to error there but there will also be some higher grades given because of the no. of submissions. (they want the business so they throw you a few bones). Business mentality---










Disclaimer--This is just MHO and may or may not be true.

Bochiman

Coinworld people just like to complain.
That's all they ever do.

I get it and read it and skim most of the letters as it is either "I found the latest 2006 penny before December 31st, 2006" or "the mint is bad, the TPGSs are bad, the moon is full of cheese, etc".

That said, sometimes dealers are better at grading some series than most people are (they see more to judge by) and have a better eye for what the TPGS may give.
I think, that at times though, there are times when a dealer may get a bump that someone else may not (maybe it is because they use set up coins, have a very large submission, have a minor rarity that is recognizable, etc).

I don't submit though......have done 1 initial club submission and sent a few coins off to someone else to submit for me just because I wanted these particular coins slabbed (kind of a gambling/entombment fee), but nothing I would say a dealer could do better.

RNCHSN

the moon is full of cheese
-------------------------------------
I prefer swiss cheese! Does it matter what kind the moon is full of?

Boothill40

<< <i>the moon is full of cheese
-------------------------------------
I prefer swiss cheese! Does it matter what kind the moon is full of? >>



Depends on the day of the week, I think swiss is on Mondays

PerryHall

<< <i>Coinworld people just like to complain.
That's all they ever do. >>



That's why I come to the CU coin forum. No one here ever complains.

Frankcoins

No.

Collectors tend to submit coins with problems such as cleaning, overdipping, AT, impaired luster and hairlines. I guess for some it's easier to complain that dealers get preferential treatment than to read the PCGS grading book and learn how to detect problem coins.

ebaytrader

<< <i>Dealers do not have an edge from the services. They just look for ways to make things work >>







IMHO, opening up submissions from collectors has caused the services to be ultra-critical and shaky in their consistency and many great original coins have been bb'd multiple times as a result. We've had the unfortunate experience ourselves on many occasions.

roadrunner

It doesn't hurt if you give the services $100K to over $1 MILL in grade fees per year. Also, it can't hurt if the coin company owner calls once in a while to "discuss" on grades received.

I can't help but think that when I used a relatively well-known dealer in 1988-1990 to submit to the TPG for me that it helped.
Those coins were always hand carried in as well. I also used the setup techniques as Laura explained. My averages back then were far better than today. Then again I don't submit much today and they go through a small local dealer. Considering that 95% of the auction market back then was still raw coins, the results aren't surprising. It was much harder back then trying to survive trading slabs considering there were very few of them still. Raw coins still ruled the auctions.

My favorite story back then concerned an 1850-0 half. I only submitted it once and got a 64 on it. The coin was likely the finest known for that date at the time and very eye appealing. This was 1988 and I didn't even think much about resubmissions back then.
It went off to auction to see if someone might just pay 65 money for it as it was PQ+. It went off at Stacks and brought strong 64 money but still 1/2 of 65 money. I knew the buying dealer and told him the history. His first submission was a 64 and he was not happy considering he was in a loss position. I saw the coin again at the FUN show a few months later sitting in Marty Haber's case as a 65. The price was now 2-1/2 times what it brought at the auction. I went back to my dealer friend and asked how he got the 65. He explained that he had complained (he was a fairly large submitter and customer) andwas told to resubmit the coin. End of story....except today that coin would no doubt fetch a MS 66 grade today.

roadrunner

cartwheel

I don't believe dealers get better grades. In fact, I've submitted a few times through a PCGS dealer, and my results have been worse. Obviously, if you submit via the $50 route (or higher), you're coin is going to get a little more consideration (you know, maybe a couple of seconds longer with each grader) than if you send it in at $18.

Cartwheel

DennisH

"Obviously, if you submit via the $50 route (or higher), you're coin is going to get a little more consideration (you know, maybe a couple of seconds longer with each grader) than if you send it in at $18."

I totally disagree, and all my experience at various service tiers (but not many at $100/each) convinces me that the $18 tier is every bit as effective at crossovers and upgrades as the $30 and $50 tiers are.

But that's just one guy's opinion; your mileage may differ.

DennisH

I totally agree about setup coins.

I'm no expert by any means, but based on my personal experiences I'm 100% convinced that what you put into a submission and how you organize them can make a difference. Maybe not every time, but over the course of several submissions it absolutely does pay dividends.

The hysterical part of this process is when the setup coins upgrade but the "target" coins don't!

Conder101

What always casts at least a little doubt on the claims that the big dealers don't get special favors are those constant stories about really nice coins that the collector or small dealer has sent in multiple times trying to get that upgrade and never succeeding., Then they sell it to big dealer who submits it and it goes up one or sometimes two points on the first attempt.

rainbowroosie

"I'm sure the graders are aware of this stunt and grade accordingly. The graders aren't stupid.'

The second part of your statement is debatable!


Yes. they are not going to call a 65 a 68...however, if you show them progressively better 66+ coins and the next one is even BETTER, my personal opinion is you can get the benefit of the doubt.

mnmcoin

<< <i>It is not intentional that dealers get better grades. In fact, collectors can actually get BETTER grades-crossovers.

However, when you submit a lot (hundreds of coins or even thousands) at a time, the coins tend to get rushed. Coins can fall through the cracks.

Also, dealers know how to submit. Many have whats known as "set up" coins. They'll put a lesser coin in front of the coin they want to work-and occasionally-this does help them get the grade. The lesser coin isn't a money making coin, all the profit is firgured in the new upgrade. Dealers also know the right times to possibly submit as well (they try and find out what team is grading).

And last, dealers who submit for a living, have learned what the services are looking for. That is probably the biggest factor in making thing work.

Dealers do not have an edge from the services. They just look for ways to make things work. >>



Very well said and...



morris <><