have you ever tried to explain psa to a non-believer

fab4

i was looking at 1984 donruss psa on ebay and my brother was visiting. i spotted a psa 10 joe carter and it was 338.00 with a couple of days left and a few auctions down was a psa 7 for 6.00. i was asked the question why would you pay the difference they don't look that much different. so i tried to justify the difference in price by discussing clarity,colors,centering and that only a few carter's ever receive 10's. and then the question of questions:

so you pay someone else to tell you about your cards, so if they (psa) says its a 7 that's means it is worth 6.00 and if they say it is a 10 it worth 5 or 6 hundred. and that what they say is gospel.
so i explained they are not always right and sometimes you have to crack them out and resubmit. i showed him the grading video and tried to explain. he looked at me like i had 5 heads

i own 3 business and i have a lovely wife and a 21 year old daughter.......and have never felt so stupid in my life.

AISAVDBBALLINPHILLY

The difference between a PSA 7 and a PSA 10 is usually a huge one. One needs to have an eye for flaws or a calibrated loupe to spot corner wear, centering issues, printing flaws, etc. Before PSA and other reputable grading services, dealers and other sellers could pass off near mint cards as mint. Don't worry that you can't convince someone that graded cards are the way to go because we all know they are, and we are thankful as collectors that we are protected by these services against inflated grading, counterfeits, etc.

yawie99

It is pretty ludicrous when you think about it, fab.

Treetop

I always compare card grading to diamond grading. Most people can relate, and once they do understand, most say "but its cardboard".

softparade

cardboard, diamonds, , etc NO MATTER what it is .... if there is a market where LOTS of people don't think twice about spending money then it is not ridiculous

qualitycards

Cards are not the only field where condition warrants higher prices.
There can be identical houses on a block both built at the same time and
the 1 that needs repairs and looks like an eyesore will net less then the
problem free house. Same w/ cars, coins, stamps, lunch boxes - you name it.
People want the best, and they are willing to pay for it.
there are thousands or raw & graded Joe Carters that are NM/MT or worse
but only a small amount that can get the highest grade from PSA, SGC, GAI
or Beckett.
To explain this to a non collector is like talking a different language...jay

BugOnTheRug

Fab4,
Anything can be broken down into a science. To the general masses, the Carter 7 you speak of is a general card. To those of us who have broken it down to a science and understand all the nuances of card condition, etc, it doesn't seem that ridiculous. Add to the equation this 'science' has variables that need to be understood and accepted - to which the general masses won't have a clue about. Therefore, anything of high or highest of quality that is understood will bring big money out of the closet - cards, cars, art work - you name it.

If you told me your story 5 years ago, I'd look at you too as having 5 heads. But since becoming a 'convert', I understand the dynamics behind it all. As Jay said, it's like you're speaking a different language........
Bill

yawie99

Of course there's a connection between condition and value for most products, but - as the Carter situation suggests - one reaches a point where the premium paid for a virtually negligible improvement in condition is absurd. Are most 10's that much nicer than most 9's? Or even 9's relative to 8's, and so on?

etown99girl

fab4,

You're lucky he didn't ask you what the difference is between Beckett and PSA?

cameocards

AISAVDBBALLINPHILLY,
The other side of the coin is also true. Prior to grading I would have MT cards sitting in my showcase and be offered 30-50% on a routine basis. My reply would be that it was at least a NM card, if not better, by any standard and I wanted 90-100% for the card. [10 years ago, there was no hope of asking over Beckett for anything]. I had some cards in my showcases for years until I finally started sending some of them in to be graded. Viola! Cards that I had been asking $3 for, I was now selling fro $25-400 depending on grade. I don't have to worry about collectors running down the quality of my cards when I don't want to hear it. It's one of the reasons that I'm grading more mid grade stars, esp from the 50s. At show recently, a collector tried to tell me that the raw card he was looking at was Ex at best and he would only pay $ for it. I told him that I thought that it was a NM card and I wanted $$ for it. This went back and forth for about 10 minutes. the more I looked at the card, the more I thought that I had made a mistake. I told the collector that if he did not take the card right then and there, it would no longer be for sale. I recently submitted it to PSA. It came back an 8 and I sold it for $$$. BTW, the collector came back about 20 min. later and told me he would take the card. I must admit I took great pleasure in telling him that the card was no longer for sale as I had said.
Grading has also helped me in buying cards from the public. In the old days, someone would bring me a bunch of ratty old cards that were "worth" $10,000 and call me a crook when my offer was only $500 or $1000. Now, I can get out the SMR and show them what a NM card looks like [ I don't even get into the higher grades for reasons stated in the thread]. I then show them cards in grades similar to the cards they have [usually 3s &4s] and try and show them what their cards are really worth.
I also like buying graded cards from peoples because the chance of a someone passing off a creased or altered card is greatly diminished. Anyone who has stood behind a dealers table has had it happen. You’re busy and someone presents you with a group of cards. You try and look at them carefully, but it is easy to be distracted. You make the deal and later you find that this card has a very light crease on the back or that card is a tad short. On the other hand, someone with a box of graded cards is a lot safer. Check the pops, check ebay sales, check the SMR and then it comes down to agreeing [or not and hey, we’re still friends] to a price.
Greg

aro13

Greg,
Great post!
So many times at shows I have bought a card raw that looked great only to get home and discover it had a wrinkle somewhere.

goose3

I had a tough time selling my dad on the issue of slabbing his cards.

I think he sees clearly now that if you want to sell and maximize your $, it has become a necessary evil.

Boopotts

<< <i>Of course there's a connection between condition and value for most products, but - as the Carter situation suggests - one reaches a point where the premium paid for a virtually negligible improvement in condition is absurd. Are most 10's that much nicer than most 9's? Or even 9's relative to 8's, and so on? >>



I'd have to agree. The thing card grading allows you to do is share your cards over the Internet; if it weren't for this I honestly don't think it would have ever caught on.

Boopotts

<< <i>fab4,

You're lucky he didn't ask you what the difference is between Beckett and PSA? >>





LOL! That's a very, very good point. Jesus, I can't even imagine trying to explain that to someone from outside the hobby.

Toad

<< <i>i own 3 business and i have a lovely wife and a 21 year old daughter.......and have never felt so stupid in my life. >>



Your wife's loveliness must be waning if she is the mother of that 21 year old. I recommend skipping the '84 Donruss Carter purchase so you can concentrate on saving $$$ to upgrade that wife a couple o' notches.

Lothar52

<< <i>

<< <i>i own 3 business and i have a lovely wife and a 21 year old daughter.......and have never felt so stupid in my life. >>



Your wife's loveliness must be waning if she is the mother of that 21 year old. I recommend skipping the '84 Donruss Carter purchase so you can concentrate on saving $$$ to upgrade that wife a couple o' notches. >>



lol

yawie99

<< <i>The thing card grading allows you to do is share your cards over the Internet; if it weren't for this I honestly don't think it would have ever caught on. >>



That was a big attraction for me for a long time: the organizational and image-hosting aspect of the Registry. I pretty much slabbed everything because of it. But I've found that it's much cheaper to just use Excel and ImageEvent.com. Obviously my site doesn't get the traffic that the Registry does, but it works great for me and is a convenient way to share with friends and trading partners.

As many collectors are probably also stat geeks, the Registry and PSA do a fabulous job of tapping into our neurotic need to quantify. But the longer I collected, the more I felt like I was just collecting cert numbers and scans. When it comes to very expensive cards (for me, that's probably $500+), I'll probably still look for graded cards and keep them slabbed, but it's very refreshing to crack cards out or to tenderly slide a raw card into a penny sleeve. Just as the essence of baseball is so much more than just numbers, raw cards radiate the chi of collecting.

GDM67

<< <i>[10 years ago, there was no hope of asking over Beckett for anything]. >>

As a general rule, that was true, but just speaking personally, I did that once or twice if I knew the dealer, trusted his honesty and agreed with his assesssment. I can distinctly remember paying about a 10% over Beckett NM price ($45. up to $50.) for a 1970 Frank Robinson for those reasons.

fab4

<< <i>Your wife's loveliness must be waning if she is the mother of that 21 year old. I recommend skipping the '84 Donruss Carter purchase so you can concentrate on saving $$$ to upgrade that wife a couple o' notches. >> >>




toad'

what you need to worry about is what kind of upgrade you can get for your mother with a shiny 2005 topps card. i know you will be able to help more when you get out of school and can get a job.

mikeschmidt

Have you ever tried to explain the difference in prices for a 1 carat diamond to someone whom is not an expert?

A flawless, colorless specimen can run over $25,000 for a single carat. That is many mutliples of what is paid for a diamond with flaws not visible to the naked eye in a color that is not noticeably different from colorless.

To an untrained eye.

perkdog

How about explaining it to dad who firmly believes that all his cards that were safely stored in a shoebox (That mysteriously dissapeared at some point growing up) from the 50's were really not MINT condition and worth thousands upon thousands of dollars.

Toad

<< <i>
toad'

what you need to worry about is what kind of upgrade you can get for your mother with a shiny 2005 topps card. i know you will be able to help more when you get out of school and can get a job. >>



I'm having trouble understanding your style of humor. The '05 Topps reference is just plain confusing. Even if a guy wanted to, he can't upgrade his mother. A person only has one mother and she can't be "upgraded" like a wife. Also, I am out of school and I have a job. I don't have three businesses like you, but I get up early and go to work five days a week.

In summary, my post was funny and yours was awkward... quite awkward, indeed.

ralstonpurina

I stopped trying to explain it to people. Along with trying not to explain why all my hockey jerseys have to be game worn.

It's my hobby, if you like it cool. If you don't fine, go spend your money on something else.

interchanges

<< <i>In summary, my post was funny and yours was awkward... >>



same kind of funny that made "Dumb and Dumber" famous, I guess

65nova

My favorite piece of this mess is if you take 5 PSA 8's, 5 PSA 9's and 5 10's and lay them all out without knowing the grades, probably 80% of the members here could not pick out the 10's. Another hard part to explain is how you can submit to PSA and receive a PSA 7oc worth $4.00 and crack and resubmit and receive a PSA 9 worth $185.00?? Try telling a friend that they are reliable and consistant with a straight face. My friend laughs at me when I tell him that his .30cent common could be woth $75 or more if graded, all he has to do is pay a $100.00 to join PSA and then pay $6.00 per card to grade. If he is wrong on the grade and only receives a PSA 7, he will have trouble selling the card for $3.00. But then, he could always crack out that PSA7 and resubmit and get a 10 worth a bundle. I will not even mention to my friend about the grader of death or certain bulk submittors receiving favorable grades, he already calls us a bunch of idiots wasting our money.

purelyPSA

I've never heard of a 7OC turning into a 9. Even with the mistakes PSA has made in the past, unless a label got screwed up, no one who has cracked out such a card has received such a bump.

shouldabeena10

Can you imagine trying to explain this thread to your friend?

Toad

<< <i>
same kind of funny that made "Dumb and Dumber" famous, I guess >>



If you would have said, "Dumb and Dumberer", I would have been insulted.