what is the story behind the wigwag scam

cohocorp

i am having a hard time searching out info on this so i figured i would post here. so..... What is the story behind the wigwag scam? i know its old news but still curious. all i heard is something about those guys switching graded cards. what is the scope of it and when did it happen? thanks

williplett

I remember reading about it and think it was 2-3 years ago. If I remember right a company called "When it was a game" was breaching PSA holders and inserting cards of a lesser quality. I don't know the full scope of it, but I don't think it was just one or two cards.

zef204

I have no idea what you are referring to.

iamthegreatcornholio

williplett

I just Googled WIWAG and PSA and came up with a fair amount of material. That is your best bet. I don't know that PSA considers the whole WIWAG deal one of their red letter days. So, don't be surprised if this thread vanishes.

pandrews

i dunno but the 2 dogs in your avatars should fight..

zef204

<< <i>I just Googled WIWAG and PSA and came up with a fair amount of material. That is your best bet. I don't know that PSA considers the whole WIWAG deal one of their red letter days. So, don't be surprised if this thread vanishes. >>

cohocorp

my intention certainly was NOT to drum up bad feelings. just trying to find out the story. i did google both words to no avail for some reason. ill try again. thanks for the help.

Stone193

It's all Greek to me?

Boopotts

My recommendation would be to go to the sgccard.com message boards and post the same question. You'll hear plenty about it from the members of those boards. I'd tell you more, but I 'think' it's a banned subject here.

cohocorp

my bad. end thread.

williplett

Hello everybody,

I'd like to explain the Collectors Universe (PSA, PSA/DNA, PCGS, PSE) policy with regards to the message boards, bashing, censorship, etc.

We basically prefer an open forum where collectors and dealers can discuss any issue of interest, help one another, and learn from one another. We prefer not to censor the message boards. To that end, we allow negative comments about our company and in fact read them as a way of having customer feedback and gaining ideas about how to improve our services. There are two areas where the message board posts can cross the line and cause us to ban members and/or censor the posts. First, if the negative comments are mean spirited, obviously slanted, and seem to be the continual work of someone with a bashing agenda...we'll take action. Second, if someone flat out lies about our company...we'll take action.

There has recently been a good deal of discussion about wiwag, Real Legends, switched cards, etc. on the PSA message boards. And there are a few board members who have been flat out lying about things. Here are some specific examples...

One board member posted the following statement re the Real Legends lawsuit, "PSA tried to get the court transcripts sealed. Judge denied request because PSA is a publically traded company." This statement is a total lie...pure fantasy. We did not ask for sealed transcripts and in fact wanted everything to remain open to the public. This is all a matter of public record. This person is making stuff up...he must have an agenda that has nothing to do with the truth. This board member is outta here.

Another board member stated something to the effect that they had heard from reliable dealer sources that PSA had sold wiwag 250,000 holders. Besides the fact that we would have no earthly reason to do this and every reason in the world not to do it, the fact is this didn't happen. We never sold wiwag any holders. This is a complete fabrication. This board member is outta here.

Another board member stated that "Joe Orlando said they did not have a sealing machine under oath." You can read the court transcripts and see that this statement is not true. At his deposition, Joe did say that he didn't know if we had picked up a sealing machine from wiwag. In court, Joe said that he had subsequently learned that Charlie Kahler had indeed picked up a sealing machine from wiwag. This was part of our settlement agreement with them. The statement that Joe said they did not have a sealing machine is not true and the statement that Joe Orlando lied under oath is not acceptable here. You can't call Joe Orlando a liar on our message boards (unless you can prove it to me that he is.) This guy is outta here.

The question is why would a person fabricate things about PSA? It seems to me that there's a high probability that these people have a hidden PSA bashing agenda. I don't know much about these people, but I do know that of the worst offenders, two have never submitted a card to PSA (though they claim they have), and one has only submitted 6 Collectors Club freebies. And I know that one member joined the boards in November and one joined in December. These people aren't here to discuss card collecting and help you, they are on the boards to bash PSA. They are no longer welcome and they have been booted from the boards.

We provide the message boards as a free service to you. We hope you enjoy them. Feel free to discuss whatever you want. And feel free to make any comment about our companies...positive or negative. Just don't make up lies about our company.

As for wiwag...we've released information long ago. And we had a restitution policy in place. There are some things we know and some things we don't know. We can tell you that the value of the cards presented under the terms of the restitution program totalled about $80,000. The cards were virtually all high grade modern cards and not high dollar vintage items. For example, the infamous Bonzi Wells card that was used as evidence in the case was a $40 or $50 card. Our suspicion is that wiwag focused on lower dollar cards that would 1) stay "under the radar, and 2) that they could resubmitt over and over again (to get usable inserts.)

Bottom line is that we stand behind our product and if you have any PSA card that you feel is suspicious, just send it to us and we'll check it out for you.

Have fun with your cards.

David Hall
President Collectors Universe
Founder PSA

lowstartmick

<< <i>my bad. end thread. >>



It's too late. At some point suits will kick down your door. You will be brought to a clandestine location were you will be beaten and tortured. They will find out what you have learned about WIWAG and then two to the back of the head. Any shred that can indicate you have ever lived will be systematically destroyed . You will probably not outlive this thread. May god have mercy on your soul.

EagleEyeKid

WIWAG, you mean the movie "When I was a Girl"; the Richard Simmons story. They've been showing it on the Lifetime channel.

Carew29

*****POOOOF******

julen23

there were several WIWAG references in the final episode of Lost, you know the talking bird and all.

there were also numerous WIWAG christ-like references in the DaVinci Code too.

not being a spoil sport, i will let you do the math.

hey TGIF!

Julen

1420sports

i dunno but the 2 dogs in your avatars should fight..

SoFLPhillyFan

<< <i>

<< <i>my bad. end thread. >>



It's too late. At some point suits will kick down your door. You will be brought to a clandestine location were you will be beaten and tortured. They will find out what you have learned about WIWAG and then two to the back of the head. Any shred that can indicate you have ever lived will be systematically destroyed . You will probably not outlive this thread. May god have mercy on your soul. >>



...and you will be "sonically sealed inside a protective, tamper-evident PSA holder with a tagged label that shows its certification number, manufacturer, grade, date, unique bar code and player's name."

MurphDawg

Stone, is that you man? You back? Or did you just post once and now you will fade back into the background again?

coachh

<< <i>*****POOOOF****** >>



This thread will self destroy at approximately 10:07 a.m. PDT


That is all

zef204

<< <i>

<< <i>*****POOOOF****** >>



This thread will self destroy at approximately 10:07 a.m. PDT


That is all >>



That was really wierd. I read this at 10:07 local time.

baseballfanatic

I dont know if williplett IS David Hall or not, or if it was just copied and pasted from somewhere, but I have to give 2 thumbs up for having the guts to say its ok to discuss it because it is (or was) relevant to the hobby. Just dont throw a bunch of hear-say and BS into the pile. The more true facts that come out of this will only help the hobby as a whole. It happened, no one nows how for sure, but it is imperative that it never happens again in any way, shape or form.....

dude

Link from David Hall

PSA Article

Dand52261

I think I still have a crappy Ripken rookie from them that is graded 9. Does not look better than 7 however

julen23

does this invovle the missing iranian?

Julen
TGIF

wick70

Knuckles

Kurtman9

I'd talk about it, but I really don't want to find a horse head in my bed tonight...

Stone193

Good job Knucks!

Knuckles

Thanks ... I should really be working but can't resist..

SDavid

I read on ebay's sports mem. board a while back something to the effect that a member of wiwag was still selling on ebay and privately bragging about his association with that company. Does anyone know who this seller is? If you could share that info publicly or privately, I'd appreciate it. I'm not going to do anything with that info...I just don't want to give the seller any money.

ps - I know about the seller who shared a web address with them in his auctions, but I wasn't sure if it was the same seller of if that seller was even an official member of their company.

ctsoxfan

<< <i>i dunno but the 2 dogs in your avatars should fight.. >>



That deserves a

williplett

I am not David Hall, I just cut and pasted his response. This board is pretty fair and lenient on PSA "bashing" I think they realize that they can't make everybody happy all the time and that allowing us a chance to vent is a good thing. I hope what he said about reading the boards is true. I think they could learn from us. I really don't see much in the way of out and out bashing just for the sake of it. People seem to have some legit beefs.

I do appreciate that PSA sponsors this board and gives us a forum to discuss our hobby.

wolfbear

Compared to all the raw card sellers on eBay still calling their VG to EX crap : NM-MT and MINT,

WIWAG is nothing but a blink of the eye in the history of sports cards collecting ...