Great Collections

calleocho

How much is money a factor to having a fantastic collection?

We all know that Burdick , Nagy and other such pioneers had extraordinary collections and most of them were no wealthy. However card collecting was an infant hobby and prices reflected that.

Then came Copeland, another amazing collector that probably moved the market all by himself. The money he spent would be considered small nowadays, but at the time it was record prices.

Now we have the new mega collectors , many of their names familiar on these boards and even around the US. Keith Olbermann, Louchios , Fogel , Merkel, Branca... etc.

Passionatte collectors no doubt and also fairly wealthy.

My question would be ...Is it possible to assamble a great collection on an average income?

Can time and knowledge overcome the fanancial shortcomings of a collector?

qualitycards

The term great collection can have numerous meanings
If collector A has a few thousand Topps, Bowmans, Goudeys & Play Balls thats a great collection.
But it would pale in comparison to collector B that might own just a Wagner T206...jay

1420sports

My question would be ...Is it possible to assamble a great collection on an average income?

Hell yeah ... maybe not in terms of value, but there are many nice mid grade cards out there to make a fantastic collection.

calleocho

I agree guys that there is a lot of grey area when it comes to what each one of us defines as a "great" collection.

I personally collect mostly cuban players so adding a Pascual to my collection would mean more to me than adding a HOF.

However ... that was not the scope of question...

I am talking massive collections reconized by all of our peers as "great"

My theory is that with enough time and dedication ...a collector can add very nice pieces throught the process of buying wisely, and a continous upgrading.

Meaning finding nicer cards then selling the old ones in order to finance the one he just bought...that sort of thing.

or maybe traveling across the country finding rare or high condition cards?

maybe instead of buying many cards, one could save up and buy just a few but classics?

Griffins

There are collections out there that surpass Fogel, Merkel, et al. I know of at least 3 where the owners fly very much under the radar, and are only known to a few, along with a few key auction houses and dealers. Just because someone isn't on the registry doesn't mean they don't have an 8 figure collection.
In response to your specific question, yes, I think you could assemble a strong collection with less than a 6 figure budget, but it would take a long time and a lot of contacts and shrewdness. I've seen many collectors jump in and out in the course of 5-8 years, and if one were to avoid that and keep plugging away (and buy cards, and not holders) it would certainly be possible. However, a lot of it would depend on what one considered an "average" income.

sagard

Greatness/beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Wabittwax

Based on what is really considered a "great" collection which is set forth by the big players you mentioned, then no, it's not possible on an average income. Try putting a competitive 52 Topps set together on $50,000 a year. You'd spend a whole years income on 1 card and still have the rest to go. You could make a nice set, but not a "great" one.

mikeschmidt

Another part of the equation is whether or not you are a) a savvy investor and b) have ample time to devote to the hobby.

If you have both - it is entirely conceivable that, on a modest budget over a decade or three, that you can invest wisely in cards - sell/trade up along the way, and end up with a fabulous collection. I think for many collectors - many of their best acquisitions come about from a 'trade' whereby they had purchased something under the radar years ago - and then traded up for something much more significant today as interest renewed in that item they got way back when...

~ms

MorrellMan

<< <i>Based on what is really considered a "great" collection which is set forth by the big players you mentioned, then no, it's not possible on an average income. >>



In terms of this post, I have to agree. If you define a "great" collection, as I assume you did, by looking to Louchios, Merkel, Branca, etc., that kind of collection can not be accumulated on a shoestring. On the other hand, "great" collections, as defined differently, can be assembled on a budget. I would consider a collection that represents a thoughtful grouping of hard-to-get cards as "great", so long as the collector is satisfied with his efforts. Unlike politics or entertainment, "greatness" can be in the eye of the possessor.

royalbrett

<< <i>Greatness/beauty is in the eye of the beholder. >>



Fixed it for ya.

onlyanumber

What mikeschmidt said to a t. Buying at the right time and selling at the right time is key to acquiring the cards you really want. Just look at the Alex Gordons. How many were sold in the 800-1300 range in March, only to be resold in the 3000 range 6 weeks later? a $1700-2200 profit can go a long way in upgrading a collection.

shagrotn77

<< <i>What mikeschmidt said to a t. Buying at the right time and selling at the right time is key to acquiring the cards you really want. Just look at the Alex Gordons. How many were sold in the 800-1300 range in March, only to be resold in the 3000 range 6 weeks later? a $1700-2200 profit can go a long way in upgrading a collection. >>



A scenario like that can go a long way if you time it right. You could have bought a Gordon for $800, sold it for $3,000 for a $2,200 profit. THEN, when the card comes back down to Earth, buy it back for maybe $1,000. Then you have a FREE Gordon card along with a $1,200. Of course none of us has a crystal ball, but when these things go in your favor, man is it nice.

JasP24

I've assembled what I consider a GREAT collection on a very average income. I am active duty Army, and my collection is now worth multiples of what I make in a year.

It has taken me some time (7 years) and I got in early on many of the NFL HOF RC's...Paying in some cases 10-25% of current selling prices...I've also been scouring the market for 5 of those 7 years when not overseas. When I am home I watch ebay religiously for anything that pops up that I need. I have a price point set for each card and won't exceed my max price for any reason. I've been focused on it so long that I know the market well enough to know a good deal when I see one and know when to buy and when to sell.

So yes it can be done, but like others stated early in this thread, it will take alot of luck and alot of dedication. To me, the enjoyment is the journey getting there not the end state. If I had unlimited income to buy everything I wanted regardless of the price I think I would have moved on to something else already. Competing for these cards and trying to find them for MY price is where I have my fun.

Its a great feeling to buy a card for 50% of what I could sell it for the next day.

Jason

Bicem

If you can devote the time and energy into putting together a complete pre-war set, even if all in PSA 1 or raw beaters, then that is a great accomplishment and collection in my eyes.

Jeff

fiveniner

You can have a nice collection on a average income that would be the envy of most true hobbyists although money wise it would be modest at best.Not all nice collections have to have cards graded nor do they have to be graded 8 or better.There are many raw collections out there that are simply outstanding.Once I complete my 59 set in graded condition 6 or better THATS IT all the rest will remain
as they are nice,clean & complete.

eccentriccollector

Copeland had a bunch of money into his collection. Probably somewhere in the $5,000,000 range. That's a lot of money.

His collection was amazing and it would be virtually impossible to duplicate it today no matter how much money you had.

calleocho

I doubt he had that much money into cards ...sure he had jerseys baseballs etc ...but half a mill into cards....i doubt it.

perkdog

I say no. I think that money absolutley is the issue 100 percent, you dont need to put alot of effort into finding great cards other than jumping online or picking up an issue of sports market report and buy to your liking. The big guys and their collections are simply put together with big bucks, not searching attics and cellars and finding mint condition cards and then getting lucky when they grade out at 8-9. I will say that "complete sets" are a combo of money and hard work, searching for elusive cards to complete that set. My hats off to the guys who do the hunting and research as that take's a major comitment. I make about 60 a year and no way can I put together a collection that would be considered "Great" in comparison to a psa 8-9 1950's set let alone a Goudy or Cracker jack collection.

MorrellMan

<< <i>I doubt he had that much money into cards ...sure he had jerseys baseballs etc ...but half a mill into cards....i doubt it. >>



Callecho
For the record, the post before yours suggested 5 mil, not half a mil....

eccentriccollector

Copeland paid record prices for his collection across the board. The sale grossed about $4,500,000 and he said that he lost money overall. He also said that one of the only cards that he made a bunch of money on was the Wagner.

He did not have any jerseys and harldy any autographs. Everything that he had was in the auction.

MorrellMan

<< <i>Copeland paid record prices for his collection across the board. The sale grossed about $4,500,000 and he said that he lost money overall. >>



Just to play devil's advocate here (and as a reformed car salesman), it's amazing how many successful businessmen "lose" money on every deal.






<< <i>He also said that one of the only cards that he made a bunch of money on was the Wagner. >>



This is the only card that had wide spread documentation of cost; pretty hard to say he lost money on that one.

RG58

a "great" collection is all about money! PSA is to thank for that mentality.

I still enjoy looking at my PSA 6-7 1950s cards in my office. Not worth much and not worthy of "greatness" in the the eyes of an auction house, but certainly attractive and entertaining to me. The average jo doesn't know the difference anyway... just an old baseball card with a familiar name... strikes up conversation and memories. Better than hanging artwork or pictures of your cousins.

Buccaneer

I was thinking about this yesterday after I read the new SMR. In it was the article of Josh Wolf and his T206 collection. The emphasis (and superlative) about his collection was the he did in only 8 months, after not getting a 1941 Ruth card. They emphasized how much of a collector he is and really has a good memory for cards. But somehow I was troubled by this and i don't know why. Anyone with $200k to spend can but a #1 set (or for the really tough sets, a top 5) and be declared the winner or best or great. I have stressed, in all things I do in life, the "journey" and that was also mentioned in the article. Here's the question, at what point could the journey be too short? Also, at what point does a great collection become barcoded commodities? If any of us have $200k to spend next month at one of the auctions (like Mile High), can we then declare that we now have a great collection?

Mantlefan

If any of us have $200k to spend next month at one of the auctions (like Mile High), can we then declare that we now have a great collection?

Technically, yes. Big bucks buy a great collection.

For the true collector, though, the thrill is in the chase: getting a bargain or hunting down the last few cards in the set. Collecting and collection are very different.

eccentriccollector

<< <i>This is the only card that had wide spread documentation of cost; pretty hard to say he lost money on that one. >>



Not entirely true. It is well known within the collecting community what he paid for his 19th century collection, which he bought in its entirety. He absolutely took a huge loss on this part of his collection.

Only a handful of dealers sold Copeland his collection so it was pretty easy to figure out where most of his cards came from and approximately what he paid for them.

JasperLamarCrabb

I think many people here on the board have a great collection. In my mind, a completed set of low population/oddball cards is a 'great achievement'. Having a set with 50% of the cards representing the top grade with none higher is really tough. None of us are going to catch Louchios, Merkel or Fogel unless you're carrying a huge chunk of change. The opportunity to put together that number of sets with their G.P.A.s is gone. The exciting part of the hobby is searching out new areas and staying ahead of the curve. That takes foresight, research, hard work and a little luck. To me, that's what makes a great collection.

There are other factors to figure in too. First, PSA's grading is not a science. Your PSA 6 of a card might sit in a PSA 8 holder in someone else's home because he jumped in early and was rewarded for large submissions. We all know the grading standard is a lot tougher now. There are correctly graded cards in older slabs, but there are also some real dogs (See that big plane you fly on minus O.J.'s jersey number and Kobe's jersey number added together).

Also, ungraded stuff has been picked through zillions of times. The hobby has grown and, although fresh raw cards do emerge, it's very hard to find unslabbed cards worthy of PSA 7 and above unless you're talking the 1980s and up.

I think great sets can still be made at reasonable prices, however the top tier is closed unless you have millions to spend. I've always been a fan of regional sets and venezuelan cards. I think there's room to build something special in these areas. Morrells, Bell Brand, Glendale Meat, Wilson Franks, Rodeo Meats, etc... are all smaller sets that get pricey at the highest PSA level, but a PSA 6 average on these sets is admirable, within grasp and not in the billion dollar range.

Last, there's been huge growth in collectibles in general. Baseball/Sportscards are not the only area to explode over the last few years. If the market starts to fall a bit, there might be some interesting opportunities. I think muscle cars are going to dip significantly unless they are well-pedigreed simply because of gas prices.

And, interest rates are going up which brings the issue of 'investing' into the picture. This wasn't really a concern for a long time because there were no interest rates. Now, we're edging towards a visible return on money put into CDs, Bonds, Savings Accounts, etc...

However, what really matters is whether or not those cards you hold are great in your eye. If they make you feel good, then they're great.

Best and hello to all (New Guy Here),

Jasper