Buyer claims he never received a card that I sent

gregm13

I've never had a problem before but I have a buyer claiming that he never received a card I sold to him. He bought the card for $30 on May 2nd and I mailed on May 3rd. He e-mails me yesterday (3 weeks later) saying that he never received the card and wanted the tracking number. I e-mailed him back with a copy of my receipt from the post office showing that I mailed the package to his zip code on May 3rd. He e-mails me back ranting that I should have bought delivery confirmation and that I'm SOL. I use to purchase delivery confirmation but the post office has started enforcing the 3/4" rule and the bubble mailer that I sent wasn't thick enough and I only charged $3 for shipping so I wasn't going to mail via priority.

I have the receipt showing that I mailed the package but now he has filed a chargeback through paypal for a refund. I have a feeling this guy files chargebacks for a living - because he was quick to quote paypal's policy and filed the complaint once he realized that I didn't send w/ DC. Am I screwed? The guy's e-bay id is kimmib8767. Here is the auction:
George Blanda auto

Regards,

Greg M.

etown99girl

Am I screwed?

Sorry, Yes, you are screwed and he will win.

etown99girl

I use to purchase delivery confirmation but the post office has started enforcing the 3/4" rule and the bubble mailer that I sent wasn't thick enough and I only charged $3 for shipping so I wasn't going to mail via priority


I have mailed a lot (1) PSA card(s) with bubble mailers and wrapped in bubble wrapped, with DC for as little (first class) $1.23-1.79 max. Now days you almost have to always use DC if you take Paypal.

RichG

Always use delivery confirmation. To get the thickness required, add a few styrofoam peanuts to the bubble mailer. Plus, I firmly believe that it is the sellers responsibility to get the package to the buyer. If The USPS, UPS, or FedEx screws up, it's not the buyers problem but instead the sellers. For this reason, as a seller, I generally make insurance manditory or higher end items ( items worth $100 or more) to protect myself.
Rich

NewJerseyMeatHook

Personally, I only use DC on cards that sell for over $20. Figure not many packages will be lost in the mail. Did have to refund a guy a couple of weeks ago who claimed his item never arrived.

Oh well. Good luck, man.

MarkJ

I charge $3.00 and always use DC and always ship in a bubble mailer.

Yes, the buyer will get their money back.

PLEASE, if you take Paypal always ship with DC and only to a confirmed address.

Sorry to hear the bad news.

Snowball

Like what etown said.

Why didn't you use paypal/ebay shipping? DC is 14 cents and you can just print it using plain copy paper. Lazy paypal people want online tracking so they can check it at one keystroke.

If you want to mail using P.O. wrap it on something like those grocery plastic shopping bag or tape piece of bubble wrap to make it thicker.

Any paypal payments requires online tracking and if $250 and over requires signature.

zef204

I do what Rich G said. I put some styrofoam peanuts in the bubble mailer as well. I had some packages sent back because they weren't thick enough and I had one guy say that it came COD and they had to pay $3.00 to get the package.

zef204

I blocked that buyer as well. I don't need that crap.

DaBigHurt

If you REALLY think this guy is ripping you off, just mail off another item to his zip code and send it with delivery confirmation. When Paypal contacts you for proof of delivery, you can just use the confirmation # of the 2nd package you sent.

In the future, ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS use delivery confirmation. Charge more if you have to on your auctions for S/H, but you'll be able rest easier knowing you're not at the mercy of Paypal and buyers who are out to screw you over not sending something with DC.

For more expensive items, I always use signature confirmation. For anything else, it's at least delivery confirmation.

MarkJ

In the future, ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS use delivery confirmation. Charge more if you have to on your auctions for S/H, but you'll be able rest easier knowing you're not at the mercy of Paypal and buyers who are out to screw you over not sending something with DC.

MarkJ

Greg,

Try not to feel bad about it. Take it as a learning tool and move on. I think we all at one time or another have been stung like you. I know I have and it only took one time.

Now, please take the advise of your friends here and use DC.

PS. Since he has already file a claim with Paypal, close it out and refund his money. If he hasn't left you feedback, let him know that you will handle it and make sure he doesn't leave you a negative fb.

GOOD LUCK,

Mark

bjork73

The post office's rule about package thickness for DC is really farking annoying, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense IMO. I just circumvent it using either the automated machines (the machines ask about package thickness, I lie ) or by printing out the shipping labels via PayPal. I've never had a case of something being returned to me.

ColleSystem

How much did you charge for shipping. Always include delivery confirmation as a part of the shipping and handling fees.

stevek

Buyers feedback left for others

Frankly, this doesn't seem like the type of buyer who would do this. He probably didn't get the item. I agree with all the comments regarding delivery confirmation. I use delivery confirmation on EVERYTHING I send out. Cardboard mailers at 3/4" can be bought for about 40 cents each, and that's what I always use.

stevek

<< <i>The post office's rule about package thickness for DC is really farking annoying, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense IMO. I just circumvent it using either the automated machines (the machines ask about package thickness, I lie ) or by printing out the shipping labels via PayPal. I've never had a case of something being returned to me. >>




I couldn't agree more. Why the post office can't do delivery confirmation on say a bubble wrap package being about 1/4"? I have asked some postal employees about this and none came up with any answer. Makes no sense because after all they are charging for it! Yes, I have sent out over 200 auction lots from my sales on ebay, all using delivery confirmation, and never a single problem.

Griffins

It has to do with the machines they use for automation, it requires a certain thickness. Sorry this happened Greg, but I think you're SOL.

shambo2000

I've mailed several hundred bubble mailers (all less than 3/4" thick with PayPal postage) with delivery confirmation and had two get delivered to the buyer with priority postage due. Both of these were to PO boxes I might add. In both cases the buyer paid the extra postage and I reimbursed the buyer the additional amount. I e-mailed USPS customer service several times asking why the 3/4" requirement was necessary. In every case I was referred to my local post office. After talking with several people from several different post offices in my local area no one had an answer. The best I could get anyone to tell me was that it was up to the receiving post office to enforce the policy and some do and some don't.

Go figure!

pandrews

<< <i>I have a feeling this guy files chargebacks for a living - because he was quick to quote paypal's policy and filed the complaint once he realized that I didn't send w/ DC. >>



i believe paypal only allows for 2 or 3 chargebacks per year..

MarkJ

i believe paypal only allows for 2 or 3 chargebacks per year..

I don't think this is correct... I read on one of ebay's forums (PP) where a guy had over 10 and his feedback from his sellers backed it up.

If a seller can't prove an item was delivered and you had 10 complaints, how can PP put a limit on it.

MarkJ

I've never had a case of something being returned to me.


Nope, but I have had several buyers that had COD waiting at the post office.

pandrews

<< <i>I don't think this is correct... I read on one of ebay's forums (PP) where a guy had over 10 and his feedback from his sellers backed it up.

If a seller can't prove an item was delivered and you had 10 complaints, how can PP put a limit on it. >>



Protection Policies - PayPal Buyer Protection - Buyers

Is there a limit on how many PayPal Buyer Protection claims a buyer can file?

You can file one claim for each PayPal payment. There is a limit of three PayPal Buyer Protection claim refunds per calendar year (January 1 - December 31). If a buyer reaches the award limit while another PayPal Buyer Protection claim remains pending, that claim will automatically revert to coverage under the standard Buyer Complaint Process.

Purchases made on eBay Express automatically qualify for unlimited claim payouts on damaged items or orders that were not received.

link

wjd283

I had a buyer say he never recieved a $34 item.I waited 30 days and,as bad as I hated to,I refunded him - S&H.

There are people who will do it to get a free item,but I don't think your guy is one of them.
The P.O. probably lost it.IMO.

MarkJ

pandrews,

Thanks for the info.

thenarcissus01

<< <i>If you REALLY think this guy is ripping you off, just mail off another item to his zip code and send it with delivery confirmation. When Paypal contacts you for proof of delivery, you can just use the confirmation # of the 2nd package you sent.

In the future, ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS use delivery confirmation. Charge more if you have to on your auctions for S/H, but you'll be able rest easier knowing you're not at the mercy of Paypal and buyers who are out to screw you over not sending something with DC.

For more expensive items, I always use signature confirmation. For anything else, it's at least delivery confirmation. >>



Bighurt, great idea. I had never thought of that.

sayheykid54

Your lucky it was only a thirty dollar item. I ship out cards new card boxes that I purchase for 30 cents. The postage with delivery ends up being less than $2.00 total.

goose3

if you print your postage on/thru paypal, delivery con is free


that's a pain in the rear though unless you are only sporadically selling an occasinal item



I put it on ALL items because of paypal's policy.

onlyanumber

<< <i>Buyers feedback left for others

Frankly, this doesn't seem like the type of buyer who would do this. He probably didn't get the item. I agree with all the comments regarding delivery confirmation. I use delivery confirmation on EVERYTHING I send out. Cardboard mailers at 3/4" can be bought for about 40 cents each, and that's what I always use. >>



I find it a little odd that greg's card wasn't the only one lost...

From his feedback left for others

Card sent by seller. Post Office lost it. Seller pizzatelly ( 1178) May-17-06 09:49 8789135162


Card sent by seller. Post Office lost it. Seller pizzatelly ( 1178) May-17-06 09:49 8789234558


Purely speculation but, I suspect this buyer had an issue with a card or two being lost from one seller, and when he tried to fight it, got hammered with the delivery confirmation. Greg's card arrives without D/C and the buyer suddenly realized he had one on a line.


Now in regards to delivery confirmation, what exactly is the rule? I thought it was 3/4" thick at most--anything over has to go priority. At least that's what I've been told by two of the three local post offices near me. I've sent out hundreds of bubble mailers at 1/2" thickness w/delivery confirmation, and never had a problem. The two bubble mailers I have sent at 3/4"-1" both got flagged at the counter. One I talked the clerk into shipping first class with D/C, but the other got hit with the priority mail designation. Must be Florida Post Offices...

wick70

Delivery Confirmation usage

First-Class Mail Parcels -
Envelopes and small packages weighing 13 ounces or less. Applies only to boxes or envelopes measuring at least 3/4” at thickest point.

When I send a card, the cardboard gets wrapped with a 12 in x 12 in bubble wrap and then gets put into a bubble mailer. This takes care of the 3/4" requirement.

Wick

sayheykid54

If they were trying to scam I would think they would do it for alot more than $30.00.

goose3

<< <i>If they were trying to scam I would think they would do it for alot more than $30.00. >>




not necessarily........almost everyone uses either insurance or delivery confirmation or a combination of both when accepting paypal or when just selling on ebay. That is especially true on items that are more expensive.

Everyone knows that Paypal will side with the buyer if he/she claims they never rec'd a package IF the seller did not use DC (which is moronic in itself).

The guy gets the envelope and sees that he can get the card for free.


I didn't go thru his feedback but find it highly suspicious that someone with 250 feedbacks would have had any, much less one, lost card.


I have been on ebay for 8? years buying and selling and have never had a lost package. (KNOCK ON WOOD!)

bri2327

You are most certianly SOL. Use delivery confirmation. I take the card, wrap the invoice around it, followed by wrapping it with 3 or 4 sheets of newspaper. That will get you over the 3/4 inch rule too.

gregm13

[q
Everyone knows that Paypal will side with the buyer if he/she claims they never rec'd a package IF the seller did not use DC (which is moronic in itself)q]

Goose,

You're such a putz. Does it make you feel better to take a cheap shot at me every time that you're able?

Greg M.

jimq112

The 3/4" width makes sure the package gets routed as a spur or parcel instead of as an envelope. If it is seen as an envelope it can be machined and sorted into DPS (delivery point sequenced) mail. DPS mail is handed to the carrier in a tray and it is not looked at until we get to the mailbox.

Parcels are treated differently and it's easier to notice that there is a DC bar code.

It's easy to miss the DC bar code on DPS mail, so sometimes a scan is not made/parcel is not "delivered" even though it was delivered. If I don't scan the sticker it doesn't hit tracking. The buyer doesn't know we didn't scan it unless he checks tracking a few days after it got delivered. If he is a jerk/scammer like greg's guy then he can charge it back.

Just use extra bubble wrap or a couple foam peanuts to make sure it's big enough, then it has a better chance of getting scanned right.

also I'm not suggesting anything but the priority stickers come in rolls for free and work great for taping off the end of a hard plastic to make sure the card doesn't slide out. If you're sending it priority anyway order a roll or 2 at usps.com, they're free, and use them to stick the peanut to the card holder.

BigRedMachine

<< <i>

<< <i>If you REALLY think this guy is ripping you off, just mail off another item to his zip code and send it with delivery confirmation. When Paypal contacts you for proof of delivery, you can just use the confirmation # of the 2nd package you sent.

In the future, ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS use delivery confirmation. Charge more if you have to on your auctions for S/H, but you'll be able rest easier knowing you're not at the mercy of Paypal and buyers who are out to screw you over not sending something with DC.

For more expensive items, I always use signature confirmation. For anything else, it's at least delivery confirmation. >>



Bighurt, great idea. I had never thought of that. >>



It is a good idea if you know with reasonably certainty you're being screwed. But this brings up a thought that I've had for a long time. Let's say I purchase a card for $500. What's to keep the seller from doing everything right, boxing up my item, insuring, and using delivery confirmation........and sending me an envelope with a 1988 Nick Esasky card? Then I tell paypal I've been hosed, the seller tells them I'm lying, he sent the card, he used DC. Then what would happen?

shawn

pandrews

<< <i>[q
Everyone knows that Paypal will side with the buyer if he/she claims they never rec'd a package IF the seller did not use DC (which is moronic in itself)q]

Goose,

You're such a putz. Does it make you feel better to take a cheap shot at me every time that you're able?

Greg M. >>



wtf?

hardcorehockeyfan

Out of ALL the mail I have sent out over my 30 years, the PO has NEVER lost anything I sent. Weird how eBay seems to have the worst problem with the USPS. I feel sorry for buyers and sellers who have really been honestly shafted, but these people who commit mail fraud because there honestly is no way of making sure they did or not, piss me off. If I were running PayPal, I would seriously try working out something with the PO about DC thickness and such. Perhaps one unreceived claim to be honored per year, after that, have the proper authorities investigate the second claim. I know it would be too large to do, but sheesh, just from what I see on these boards, fake claims have to cost people millions of dollars, just from eBay alone. I know it is a fairy tale, but whether it is over a $1 item, or a $1,000 item, it is sickening. PayPal also has to get their heads out of their asses and realise, once a seller ships an item, it should not be their responsibility. It seems that it would be much easier at times, to charge $500+ shipping fees, and fly or drive the item to the winner yourself!!!!

Fabfrank

It is a good idea if you know with reasonably certainty you're being screwed. But this brings up a thought that I've had for a long time. Let's say I purchase a card for $500. What's to keep the seller from doing everything right, boxing up my item, insuring, and using delivery confirmation........and sending me an envelope with a 1988 Nick Esasky card? Then I tell paypal I've been hosed, the seller tells them I'm lying, he sent the card, he used DC. Then what would happen?

I'm not sure Shawn, but I recently had an issue with a seller. When I went through Paypal to get reimbursed I noticed there was an option "Recieved empty box". I would consider that similar to expecting a $500 card and getting N. Esasky card. I would assume that this has happened enough that Paypal has institiuted a procedure to deal with it.

My recent issue was with a seller who claimed he sent an item. After 3 weeks and not receiving the item I asked him for the status. He continued to claim he sent it. I asked him for the D/C # so that I can track the item and he went into a rant accusing me of receiving the cards and ripping him off. Now I have perfect feedback and tried to assure the seller I didn't receive the item, but if he would provide the D/C I can than track where the package went. Again the accusing emails came and he dared me to do a chargeback and that Ebay and Paypal would back him up, blah, blah. I told him that if he provided the D/C # that it was proof of him sending the item and his obligation was over. He just wouldn't give it to me.
Well I did some research through Paypal and found that the seller created the mailing label through Paypal, but never mailed the cards. I knew he never mailed the cards because once you mail them, Paypal would generate a tracking #. There was no tracking #. He also didn't pay for D/C. It took almost 2 months but Paypal judged in my favor and I got my money back.

goose3

<< <i>[q
Everyone knows that Paypal will side with the buyer if he/she claims they never rec'd a package IF the seller did not use DC (which is moronic in itself)q]

Goose,

You're such a putz. Does it make you feel better to take a cheap shot at me every time that you're able?

Greg M. >>




Greg
Name calling? LOL!!

WTF are you talking about?
I'm going to assume that you didn't comprehend that my comments in parenthesis were directed at Paypal for requiring the use of DC, which some of us were discussing at length in another thread. If I was going to call you a moron or moronic, I wouldn't mask it and would just state it. I'm not one that minces words.

Now, who exactly is the "Putz" as you say?

Brian48

The buyer could be telling the truth. As a buyer myself, there were two separate occasions where I never got what I bought and both sellers sounded pretty sincere about sending it. Being relatively low cost items, I just let it go.

cardfan07

I always send packages with DC...but that's not always the case. I've had one guy tell me he didnt get his card...I had another so I shipped it to him. It was a few $$ but I had to send him "my" card to make things right.
I think most people are honest and won't screw you over if you didn't put DC on your mailer. That said, I don't skip it because I'm not a big dealer that can write off lost product or self insure to cover the "loss". It's just added security for you and me.

Kurtman9

Some on this thread have said Delivery Confirmation is needed on "everything" paid with paypal. I have a question: If I get insurance on the package with "signature confirmation", do I still need to get DC as well?

Snowball

<< <i>Some on this thread have said Delivery Confirmation is needed on "everything" paid with paypal. I have a question: If I get insurance on the package with "signature confirmation", do I still need to get DC as well? >>



lazy paypal wants "online tracking" on every package. If item is $250 and over you need the signature confirmation this is not the insurance signature. If under $250 you still need the regular DC even if insured.

etown99girl

<< Some on this thread have said Delivery Confirmation is needed on "everything" paid with paypal. I have a question: If I get insurance on the package with "signature confirmation", do I still need to get DC as well? >>


I use DC on everything. Number one, I feel it good customer service to be able to provide a tracking number to a buyer so they can check it on line.

It's worth every cent!!!

It voids a lot of emails on... Where is my item? Has it been shipped? and etc...

Just my two cents...

etown99girl

And since I have join this site and read some of these horror stories... I believe that it has paid off BIG TIME!

gregm13

<< <i>

<< <i>[q
Everyone knows that Paypal will side with the buyer if he/she claims they never rec'd a package IF the seller did not use DC (which is moronic in itself)q]

Goose,

You're such a putz. Does it make you feel better to take a cheap shot at me every time that you're able?

Greg M. >>




Greg
Name calling? LOL!!

WTF are you talking about?
I'm going to assume that you didn't comprehend that my comments in parenthesis were directed at Paypal for requiring the use of DC, which some of us were discussing at length in another thread. If I was going to call you a moron or moronic, I wouldn't mask it and would just state it. I'm not one that minces words.

Now, who exactly is the "Putz" as you say? >>



Goose,

I apologize if I misinterpreted your comments. Some of your comments had irritated me on a prior thread and I thought comment was directed towards me.

Regards,

Greg M.

gregm13

<< <i>The buyer could be telling the truth. As a buyer myself, there were two separate occasions where I never got what I bought and both sellers sounded pretty sincere about sending it. Being relatively low cost items, I just let it go. >>



Believe me, if he didn't receive it then I do feel bad for him. However, based upon how fast he filed a chargeback after contacting me it makes me wonder his true intentions.

Regards,

Greg M.

Fabfrank

Greg- Chalk it up as a lesson learned. I know the principle is what bothers you probably more than the worth of the card, but in the grand scheme of things, it was a cheap lesson.

gregm13

<< <i>Greg- Chalk it up as a lesson learned. I know the principle is what bothers you probably more than the worth of the card, but in the grand scheme of things, it was a cheap lesson. >>



I just refunded the money and blocked him from bidding on any further auctions. He must need the $30 more than I do.

Regards,

Greg M.

goose3

etown99girl

gregm13,

Thanks for posting.