Any guesses on what this is?

Slacker76

Can any one tell me what is going on with this quarter? thank you.

airplanenut

Nice cud from a very damaged die

airplanenut

...and what looks like a clip... what do the rims look like around the cud?

Slacker76

and that does what to the value?

Slacker76

"...and what looks like a clip... what do the rims look like around the cud?"

Slotted like the rest of the coin (if you mean the edge where i hold it).

Aegis3

You have a quarter with major die breaks ("cuds") on both sides. Basically, the blank, raised portions of the coin are due to portions of the corresponding die breaking off, and so nothing was struck there (and thus also explaining the weakness opposite of the break, as in at the date). It also looks like that both dies were falling apart more, as I think I see a die crack towards the eagle's head on the reverse.

It has real value (to guess a wide range, probably $20-$100, maybe more), and I'm sure someone can give a catalog number for it.

Slacker76

Thank you very much. Catalog number? can you give me more information on that please?

Aegis3

<< <i>Thank you very much. Catalog number? can you give me more information on that please? >>



There are books on die varieties for basically every series, along with at least one book on just die breaks themselves. These may give more information on your variety, including if it exists in earlier or later states (i.e. with the dies more or less deteriorated). Unfortunately, I don't have these.

LanLord

I have many questions about that quarter.

What's going on around Washington's mouth?? Doubled or tripled?
His nose looks like it's overstruck with an upsidedown nose.

The "cuds" look too much like solder blobs to me, but maybe they are cuds.

I also have a difficult time accepting that a current day pair of dies were destroyed at the same time.

If that's the real deal, there's a lot of activity on a single coin.

Slacker76

Let me know if you want some more pics to help figure it out. the camera i am using doesnt have a micro setting so getting real close is tough, but if it helps ill try.

seanq

Bumping this thread so some of the other error guys can see it.

I've seen this variety before, with major cuds on both the obverse and reverse dies. Most likely, either a foreign object got between the dies or they experienced a violent die clash, which caused both dies to crack and fail. The other marks around the face and wings are more cracks or die damage, those could be the foreign object above or possibly from the broken pieces of the die falling in between them and being struck. The strike weakness on the face opposite the cud is a classic diagnostic for a genuine error - there is effectively no striking pressure where the pieecs of the die are missing.

As you can imagine, those dies didn't strike many coins in that condition, so your coin is pretty scarce. I'd value the coin in the $100-$150 range, maybe even a little more if you find two people who need it. As someone mentioned above, cuds are actively cataloged and collected, though the standard reference on them has not been updated for several years. It's a terrific find.


Sean Reynolds

eyoung429

As an error maven myself, that is a pretty exciting find!!!! As Seanq stated, $100-$150 raw and even more realized in having it slabbed by PCGS or ANACS.

Congrats!!!!!

PerryHall

I have never cared for the slang term "cud". The proper term should be "die break" which is more descriptive and less confusing to new collectors.

LALASD4

NICE !

Longacre

Looks like a cud.

errormaven

Seanq is correct. You've got a cud (die break) on each face. You've also got die cracks, die damage, and clash marks. The dies are very late-stage and show considerable die wear. I've seen several quarters struck by this die pair, and yours is the prettiest.

Slacker76

Thank you very much for all the input. Should i submit this to PCGS then?

Myqqy

Should i submit this to PCGS then?

Are you planning on selling it soon?

Slacker76

no, i dont.

Coxe

Very interesting. Looks like some delamination behind George's hair. I am not so sure how much I know about the modern minting process, but I'll take a guess. Suppose the planchet was not fully in the collar on the initial strike. The flow could build biased in a fan formation in one direction. It them seats correctly and the thicker parts did not take the design but reshaped right in the collar. Maybe two or three strileks before the ejection. Problem I see is that the rim is too good fo that. The flow doesn't look natural. That's just a WAG anyway. Fascinating if it is indeed Mint made.

cladking

Very nice and very nice high grade example of this coin. Mine is very late die state after
the die started shattering but is quite worn. Your's appears to be very close to the same
stage as the one pictured in Coin world back about 2001.

It's an '83-P. I can spot no difference in die wear on the few examples I've seen so it's
highly unlikely it made more than a couple thousand more coins after the obverse die split.
I've been looking for the earlier die states before the cuds formed but haven't had any
luck yet. This thing may have gone from good dies to being swapped out very suddenly.

windwhispersintrees

Here's my 83-P, but it's apparently from a different set of dies.
I love finding stuff like this in circulation.

Coxe

Very cool. They don't make them like they used to, huh?

cladking

Coxe: That's just a die crack behind Washington near the cud. The light must have
caught it just right to highlight it. It's not nearly so dramatic on the coin.

Coxe

<< <i>Coxe: That's just a die crack behind Washington near the cud. The light must have
caught it just right to highlight it. It's not nearly so dramatic on the coin. >>



Would have fooled me, but you are the king of clad. Still a very cool piece, the other one on here too.

Slacker76

"Coxe: That's just a die crack behind Washington near the cud. The light must have
caught it just right to highlight it. It's not nearly so dramatic on the coin. "

Which one are you referring to?

cladking

<< <i>

Which one are you referring to? >>



The line that comes out from the bottom of the obverse cud at about 15 degrees below horizontal
and then bends up to go to the bottom of the "Y" in "LIBERTY".

Coxe

The copper at the back of GW's head.

cladking

Just in case anyone doesn't see what's going on here;

There are two cuds or one on each side. These voids are caused by part of the die breaking completely
away. The obverse piece was the triangular shape at the top. Since there was no obverse die to push
metal into the reverse die there is the extreme weakness on the reverse through "DOLLAR". The reverse
die broke opposite the obverse die through "OF AMER". The corresponding weakness is in the date on
the obverse. Remember the obverse and reverse are lined up opposite so when the coin is flipped bot-
tom over top the other side is right side up.

There is also a die break from the "I" to the "Y" in "LIBERTY" and another through the eagle's head on
the reverse. There is some sort of damage above the arrow tips which also shows up opposite by Wash-
ington's eye. I suspect this was part of the reverse die and it contributed to the failure of the obverse.
Later die states show a reverse die which is shattering with many criss-crossing die breaks.

Coxe

So clad, is that copper at the back of his head delamination or an artifact of the more general error in the high pressure strike or what?

cladking

<< <i>So clad, is that copper at the back of his head delamination or an artifact of the more general error in the high pressure strike or what? >>



I'm sorry. Is that copper? I didn't even notice it or thought it was a trick of the light. If it's copper
than it is likely a split clad layer but I'd guess it's a trick of the light. If there's a shallow ridge between
the silver color and copper color then you're probably right that it has "delaminated" or split.

Slacker76

If you are talking about the original coin pictured one page one there is no copper showing.