pujols / bonds / steriods question
Ilovebaseballcards
Posts: 144
in Sports Talk
ok we all "know" that mcqwire and sosa were on the juice when they got their home run record run, breaking maris's record
and we all "know" that bonds was on the juice when he broke mcgwire's record a few years later.
so last night when I hear reporters talking about how pujols in on pace to break bond's single season mark,
I thought to myself, are all the bonds-haters out there going to start pointing fingers at pujols for juicing too?
I mean, the only times people have been close to the record in the recent past we "know" it was all because of steroids/growth hormones/clear/etc
so it is obvious that if pujols hits 70+ this year, he is doing it too.
I don't like it, but the facts are clear. let the hating of pujols begin
and we all "know" that bonds was on the juice when he broke mcgwire's record a few years later.
so last night when I hear reporters talking about how pujols in on pace to break bond's single season mark,
I thought to myself, are all the bonds-haters out there going to start pointing fingers at pujols for juicing too?
I mean, the only times people have been close to the record in the recent past we "know" it was all because of steroids/growth hormones/clear/etc
so it is obvious that if pujols hits 70+ this year, he is doing it too.
I don't like it, but the facts are clear. let the hating of pujols begin
0
Comments
Yeah, I know....my Cubs aren't much better.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>I say Pujols should have an * for hitting a lot of home runs this weekend against a less than major league team - The KC Royals.
Yeah, I know....my Cubs aren't much better. >>
I would probably be mad if I didn't fully agree with the 'less than major league team' comment.
<< <i>Pujols' body hasn't changed much since he came into the big leagues - Bonds packed on 20+ pounds of muscle in one offseason after turning 39...that just doesn't happen without growth hormones and/or steroids. >>
It just doesn't happen to anyone regardless of age without the assistance of growth hormones/steroids. To do it at age 39 is even more impressive (from a growth perspective) Even some professional bodybuilders have a tough time doing that.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>
<< <i>Pujols' body hasn't changed much since he came into the big leagues - Bonds packed on 20+ pounds of muscle in one offseason after turning 39...that just doesn't happen without growth hormones and/or steroids. >>
It just doesn't happen to anyone regardless of age without the assistance of growth hormones/steroids. To do it at age 39 is even more impressive (from a growth perspective) Even some professional bodybuilders have a tough time doing that. >>
The majority of bodybuilders actually cut weight in season and gain weight when out of season. Most Builders drop 25-35 pounds before contest season starts to roll around. Just like boxers, most boxers fight weight is anywhere from 15-25 pounds below there everyday walking weight.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Pujols' body hasn't changed much since he came into the big leagues - Bonds packed on 20+ pounds of muscle in one offseason after turning 39...that just doesn't happen without growth hormones and/or steroids. >>
It just doesn't happen to anyone regardless of age without the assistance of growth hormones/steroids. To do it at age 39 is even more impressive (from a growth perspective) Even some professional bodybuilders have a tough time doing that. >>
The majority of bodybuilders actually cut weight in season and gain weight when out of season. Most Builders drop 25-35 pounds before contest season starts to roll around. Just like boxers, most boxers fight weight is anywhere from 15-25 pounds below there everyday walking weight. >>
Yup, yup. I was talking on a net basis, it is tough for a bodybuilder to add 20lbs of lean muscle in a year. But this is for another conversation as I do not want to ruin 'Ilovebaseballcards' original post and question.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>ok we all "know" that mcqwire and sosa were on the juice >>
I thought Mcgwire was busted for someother type of "GNC supplement" that was then taken off the shelves??
<< <i>
<< <i>ok we all "know" that mcqwire and sosa were on the juice >>
I thought Mcgwire was busted for someother type of "GNC supplement" that was then taken off the shelves?? >>
and since then "refused to incriminate himself" when testifying before congress when asked if he had taken steroids. we all "know" now that he was doing them and "knew" then too, we just did not care because he and sosa were likable and bringing baseball back, but now, with perspective, we KNOW they were both juicing.
<< <i>Pujols' body hasn't changed much since he came into the big leagues - Bonds packed on 20+ pounds of muscle in one offseason after turning 39...that just doesn't happen without growth hormones and/or steroids. >>
his body has not changed much? do you have a photo of him when he was 19 to compare to?
and he is still young, but if he is hitting 70+ home runs, then he IS on the juice. simple logic used to convict bonds, sosa, and mcquire (and bagwell, and others) shows that. NO one could possiblly do what THEY did without juice, so if pujols gets there, he damn sure better be investgated too. that is all I am saying.
<< <i>do you have a photo of him when he was 19 to compare to?
>>
Sure thing.
Here ya go! Photo album cataloguing Pujols' career in photos.
Check his hat size.
Pujols is not juicing.
It's great that teams are pitching to him and still walking Bonds at every chance.
A silent boycott seems to be happening and I support it.
Don't give Bonds the chance to hit, however hobbled and ineffective he may be, and pitch to Pujols always.
I hope he breaks the record this year.
<< <i>
<< <i>Pujols' body hasn't changed much since he came into the big leagues - Bonds packed on 20+ pounds of muscle in one offseason after turning 39...that just doesn't happen without growth hormones and/or steroids. >>
It just doesn't happen to anyone regardless of age without the assistance of growth hormones/steroids. To do it at age 39 is even more impressive (from a growth perspective) Even some professional bodybuilders have a tough time doing that. >>
I think as per Bonds grand jury testimony he "unknowingly" took steroids (like Gary Sheffield). He thought he was taking some supplements such as flaxseed oils and think ZMA was mentioned. So there you go he actually took steroids but claimed he didn't know he took the undetectable the cream and the clear (Yeah right).
The only question is if he knew it was steroids. So I hope he doesn't say he didn't took steroids because he actually did (he just claimed unknowingly took steroids).
I saw a posting here with link that he's not after Hank Aaron's HR but Sadaharu Oh's HR record! Huh? He's having real bad side effects of the cream and the clear.
I wonder how much Victor Conte gets from Bonds in terms of $$. He mentioned Marion Jones but not Barry Bonds.
I don't know about Pujols. He looks big. Could be, he took growth hormone when he was in high school. Some doubt his age. I don't know if ever came from his mouth that his 26 years old. Like "I am 26 years old." The article I read in sports column he said he knows how old he is but never mentioned "I am 26 years old." He's like Lebron James they look mature for their age. I wonder if Lebron ever took growth hormone in HS. I heard they don't test for those in HS since testing are expensive.
<< <i>Oh, BTW, making accusations like this about Bonds and everyone else are serious, why do these "sources" remain confidential, if you can run your mouth, put your face to the words! >>
That's not accusation. It's a fact. "Grand jury testimony" (Grand Jury testimony supposed to be confidential but someone from the inside leaked it out to the press) he claimed he "unknowingly" took steroids. BALCO records were also leaked out.
It's NOT World Anti-Doping doing the test it's MLB and tests has to be approved by the player's association. Cream and clear are undetectable not sure if still is up to this date.
I didn't even say Pujols and leBron actually took growth hormone (they could've since they don't those kind of testing in high school).
Edited...and I am not calling you out snowball, I am just making a flat out statement to these boards, although I am just some stupid hick who hates the Yankees!
Let's all bulk up...
Bosox1976
I said he claimed he "unknowingly" took steroids.
How can you accuse him of lying to a grand jury, which you know, is a heavy duty felony,
I wasn't accusing him of lying. I said grand jury testimony, he unknowingly took steroids (that he thought was flaxseed oil and ZMA). So what did he take? steroids. Whether he knew it or not it's still steroids.
Some MLB players like sheffield (no longer friends with bonds -- sheff said Bonds introduce him to it -- do search engine for this sheff article -- interesting to read this was awhile back) and Giambi's name was also leaked out to the press.
Selig appointed somebody to investigate. I'm not sure if they have access to the BALCO records (BALCO records were leaked out to the press)
How do you know there was not anything Pujols took in his days before pro baseball?
I said could've (could have) taken when in high school. Few schools do steroid testing because testing per athlete are expensive.
<< <i>Here ya go! Photo album cataloguing Pujols' career in photos. >>
that only goes back 2 years.
he has been juicing longer than that!
if he is hitting 70+ home runs, then he IS on the juice. simple logic used to convict bonds, sosa, and mcquire (and bagwell, and others) shows that. NO one could possiblly do what THEY did without juice, so if pujols gets there, he damn sure better be investgated too. that is all I am saying.
Also edited........What if he really "unknowingly" took them? Sure, would spike his game up to some degree, but he should not get the backlash in that case as he has now. Sheffield and Giambi, where is their scorn? I saw perhaps, one minute worth towards them in the 60 minutes I see towards Bonds, if you can see the ratio!
<< <i>Bonds has a trainer, how do you know he did not just trust the man too much, by taking his word they were not this or that. I have had doctors try to push so much drugs in me over the last few years since I had a back injury, and I have now become anti prescription taking in any form. I used to get a script, take it to the pharmacy, fill it, and take as directed, now I get a script, see what it is for, and decide from there if I take them or not. I learned to not trust some doctors, because they are like, "take this, you will feel better," does anyone get any point as to what I am saying? BTW, $3,000 to Barry would be like $5 to most ordinary people, perhaps he did not know what they really were, yet he saw improvement and thought they were the best thing for him.
Also edited........What if he really "unknowingly" took them? Sure, would spike his game up to some degree, but he should not get the backlash in that case as he has now. Sheffield and Giambi, where is their scorn? I saw perhaps, one minute worth towards them in the 60 minutes I see towards Bonds, if you can see the ratio! >>
Giambi got the cream and clear from Bonds trainer.
Sheffield and Giambi admitted they took the cream and the clear. Those confidential grand jury testimony were also leaked out.
<< <i>Giambi got the cream and clear from Bonds trainer.
Sheffield and Giambi admitted they took the cream and the clear. Those confidential grand jury testimony were also leaked out. >>
Yes, that is also what I heard, but Bonds seems to be the scapegoat, why is Bonds "THE Cheater," and the others involved seem to barely get a slap on the back on the hand?
<< <i>
<< <i>Here ya go! Photo album cataloguing Pujols' career in photos. >>
that only goes back 2 years.
he has been juicing longer than that!
if he is hitting 70+ home runs, then he IS on the juice. simple logic used to convict bonds, sosa, and mcquire (and bagwell, and others) shows that. NO one could possiblly do what THEY did without juice, so if pujols gets there, he damn sure better be investgated too. that is all I am saying. >>
Did you even look at the page? It goes back to 2002.
Smiple logic used to convict bonds? Uhm, grand jury testimony where Bonds admitted he used steroids isn't enough?
Simple logic would also show you that Bonds, Sosa, and Mac all started hitting MORE home runs after they hit the apex of their careers, while Pujols is just starting.
I know you are just trying to stir the pot, but please, you must do better than this.
<< <i>Here ya go! Photo album cataloguing Pujols' career in photos. >>
well at least now I know why you have that link............................
you look at those photos when you masterbate
thinking of how great pujols is.
I am sure you have a similar link to Ichiro photos for the same reason!
but at least now we know.
<< <i>
<< <i>Giambi got the cream and clear from Bonds trainer.
Sheffield and Giambi admitted they took the cream and the clear. Those confidential grand jury testimony were also leaked out. >>
Yes, that is also what I heard, but Bonds seems to be the scapegoat, why is Bonds "THE Cheater," and the others involved seem to barely get a slap on the back on the hand? >>
I made this exact same point (less the specific naming of Sheffield) on this thread
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=501917
in response to several people calling for Bonds to be Banned from baseball...
"Bonds should be Banned? where is the due process?
and where is the equity?
McGuire did the juice, and we all know it based on his testimony to congress.
Sosa is a likely a steriod user, and DID have a corked bat
Palmerio got BUSTED on the juice (after swearing under oath he did not use!)
and do not forget
Jason Giambi admited flat out, under oath and in the press, that he used steriods and growth hormones for more than 3 years.
so
when is MLB suspending and/or banning them?
when is the national media going to constantly attack and negatively impact the lives of them?
when is Bud "head up my ass" Selig going to "investigate" them?
Give me a damn break.
we ALL know this is all about "taking Bonds down" in a planned witchhunt against him, and NOT about "cleaning out baseball" or they would go after ALL users and not just spend time worrying about what is said about Bonds in a tell-all book from his ex-lover (who is just out for the cash-in!) "
<< <i>
Yes, that is also what I heard, but Bonds seems to be the scapegoat, why is Bonds "THE Cheater," and the others involved seem to barely get a slap on the back on the hand? >>
I made this exact same point (less the specific naming of Sheffield) on this thread
>>
Bonds is being investigated for lying under oath about his steroid use. He is not being investigated for the steroid use alone. But then, if you had read the reasons why, you wouldn't be here posting so foolishly.
and where is the equity?
<< <i>McGuire did the juice, and we all know it based on his testimony to congress.
Sosa is a likely a steriod user, and DID have a corked bat
Palmerio got BUSTED on the juice (after swearing under oath he did not use!)
>>
Mac never testified during the BALCO case, neither did Sosa, neither did Palmiero. Your bringing their names up is a flailing attempt at an argument, and it falls flat. Palmiero was already investigated to see if he possibly committed perjury, but it was deemed there would be no way to tell for sure, so those investigations were halted.
<< <i>and do not forget
Jason Giambi admited flat out, under oath and in the press, that he used steriods and growth hormones for more than 3 years.
so
when is MLB suspending and/or banning them?
>>
He never admitted in the press anything. You are getting ahead of yourself (again). He said he apologized, though did not admit for what. He testified he used steroids, under sealed grand jury testimony.
<< <i>when is the national media going to constantly attack and negatively impact the lives of them? >>
I guess you don't remember the scrutiny that Giambi suffered when his testimony became public?
<< <i>when is Bud "head up my ass" Selig going to "investigate" them? >>
Giambi and the rest of them didn't lie during their grand jury testimony. Again, that's what these investigations are about: PERJURY, not just the steroid use.
<< <i>Give me a damn break.
we ALL know this is all about "taking Bonds down" in a planned witchhunt against him, and NOT about "cleaning out baseball" or they would go after ALL users and not just spend time worrying about what is said about Bonds in a tell-all book from his ex-lover (who is just out for the cash-in!) " >>
No, this is about the most notorious player in baseball getting busted for perjury and sending a clear message to anyone who wants to use steroids/growth hormones.
I am sorry you are unable to fathom that the investigation stems from perjury Bonds committed, and not just steroid use.
Bud Selig - MLB to investigate alleged steroid use by Barry Bonds and other players as detailed in the book "Game of Shadows", and plans to hire former U.S. Senate majority leader George Mitchell to lead the effort.
Sosa is a likely a steriod user, and DID have a corked bat
Palmerio got BUSTED on the juice (after swearing under oath he did not use!)"
<< <i>Mac never testified during the BALCO case, neither did Sosa, neither did Palmiero. >>
and apparently you cant not read either. I never mentioned them testifying in the balco case, but clearly said, they testified before congress (also under oath by the way)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/03/12/sports/s230952S15.DTL
<< <i>I guess you don't remember the scrutiny that Giambi suffered when his testimony became public? >>
compared to what bonds has gone through, just since their appearence before the grand jury, it is no comparison. giambi might have had a few negative articles, but nothing like the constant daily barrage of press, paparazzi and fans (many with death threats, etc)
trying to compare the giambi's experience vs bonds in this area is like comparing the number of world series that the yankees have to the ones that seattle has
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/03/BALCO.TMP
photo gallery
In His Own Words: Bonds on allegations of steroid use
The Documentation
The Growing Legend Of Barry Bonds