For the large cent collectors-- which is a good date to start off with?

Longacre

This is a question for the large cent collectors/experts in the house. I like to ease into things and ramp up my knowledge before I start to make big purchases. I am currently in the knowledge accumulation process. In the large cent area, can you reccomend a certain date of large cents that offers interesting history, interesting coins, lots of varieties/attribution opportunities, and which are somewhat readily available, so as not to break the bank? There seem to be less nuances with the late date cents, so maybe one of those dates would be a good place to start and try to build several of a certain date showing varieties, etc. I understand that die states are harder to determine with late date cents, but I am just looking for a starting point that will whet my appetite.

So given the parameters above, what do you suggest as a date?

RTS

1816 or 1817 or ***1794***

am neither expert nor real collector just a fan but have been concentrating on large cent and half cent books...

Coin Finder

what is your budget and what is your goal?

Numisone

1846 and 1847. Enough varieties to keep you busy for years, and affordable also.

Barndog

Start with a few good books on the subject, then move on to the coins.

Cladiator

I started out with 1802. No particular reason though and anything but an expert here.

CarlWohlforth

I would start off with 1856. It was made 100 years before I was born. There is the slanting 5 and upright 5. It is affordable in MS condition.

MikeInFL

Longacre,

For the budget minded, the late 1840s and 1850s would be my first recommendation. However, attribution for these coins, particularly in XF or below, can be an extreme challenge.

The middle date large cents from 1816-36 are far easier to attribute, but more expensive in higher grade.

The classic head large cents are much more expensive and generally very poor looking.

Bust and earlier large cents, are equally as expensive, but often are in much better shape than their younger classic head siblings.

However, if I had to choose only one year it would probably be 1839. There are several neat varieties listed in the Redbook (booby head, silly head, head of 1838, and the rare 9 over 6), and except for the latter variety are fairly available in all grades and fairly easy to attribute. They are also part of the transition from Matron Heads to Braided Hair large cents. The challenge for this year will be to find eye-appealing examples, as large cents of the late 1830s and early 1840s are often spotted, splotchy, or recolored. I would start collecting the Redbook varieties, and if that interests you, go on to collect more varieties of this date or wherever your collecting goals lead you.

Personally, I started with a type set of large cents (bust, classic head, matron head, matron head modified, braided hair), then moved to collecting Redbook varieties of the last three, working generally backwards by date.

Your answer to a question will help in making a better recomendation: Just how big is your budget?

Hope this helps...Mike

p.s. I would buy the Breen, Sheldon, Noyes, Wright, and Grellman references.

JadeRareCoin

So given the parameters above, what do you suggest as a date?

I have been asked this question in the past! I would suggest 1820. This year offers a chance to pickup a Randall Hoard coin in high grade for less than $1000. 1820 N-13 is probably the most common middle date large cent in uncirculated condition. N-13 also boasts some spectacular die breaks on the obverse, which ads to the charm. To own an early copper in true uncirculated condition is a special feeling, and for many the only opportunity to do so is with a Randall Hoard coin. 1820 has a total of 15 die varieties and none are considered "rare", although a few a very tough. It is possible to assemble a complete set of all 15 varieties and many can be found in uncirculated condition with little trouble. From 1820, you can eventually branch out a few years back and a few years forward without much financial sacrifice. That's it: 1820

Longacre

<< <i>Your answer to a question will help in making a better recomendation: Just how big is your budget? >>




Great suggestions from everyone so far, and it would be great to hear from others as well. As for the budget, for now I will just say "limited" because my goal right now is to just learn more and try to examine a bunch of coins of a particular date without breaking the bank. Because it costs me $50 to fill my car with gas, let's just say around $100-200 or so per coin at this point. I think I would understand the coins better if I had a bunch of an interesting date and varieties. After I feel as though I know enough, then I can loosen the purse strings.

PS. If my budget is completely unrealistic, please let me know.

MikeInFL

$100-200 per coin would get you a nice XF 1839 in the common varieties, and XF to AU for most of the common vareties of middle to late 1840s and 1850s. Most AU examples of the 1840s and 1850s would be attributable in this grade, however their minute differences are less interesting (to me) than their earlier siblings where the differences between varieties is more pronounced.

After reading it, I really liked Jade's suggestion of 1820. It was my introduction to large cents, but getting an MS example of this date is a bit out of your price range.

As I stated in my previous post, collecting these coins by die variety was not all that interesting to me as the differences were quite small, but I like your idea of jumping into a date to see if it interests you.

After hearing your price range, I stand by my two recommendations -- any date from 1846-1857 (1855 is a farily neat date), or 1839. I would start with Redbook varieties and work your way into die vareties (and even die states, if it interests you that much).

Hope this helps...Mike

p.s. please note the grades in the above post are TPG grades not EAC grades, which would tend to be a bit lower.

JadeRareCoin

You want to hear something funny? I didn't even realize that my icon coin is an 1820 N-13 (that one is MS-65 BN), until after posting my suggestion! I like the historic aspect of the Randall Hoard.

doughmaking

I say start out with whatever you can afford....
Just my .02

MikeInFL

Jade,

Not to take this tread off topic, but your icon is really an exceptional example of a Randall Hoard coin, the majority of which are spotted and discolored. Here is my example (PCGS MS 64 BN) of the same variety (N-13), which is much more representative of the quality of coins from the Randall Hoard:



Have fun...Mike

JadeRareCoin

Mike, very good point. I just picked up another 1820 N-13 that is unc, yet heavily spotted and not very attractive as such. That one cost us $120. 1818 is another fun year for entry level copper, btw.

1798CentCollector

You should also decide what condition you want to settle for also. With the budget you are looking at you might consider the late dates (varieties are typically indistinct - but them again you have plenty to collect that will take you through a number of years. These are popular with a number of collectors and you can obtain some nice pieces in higher VF anf XF grades. Also, through EAC, the late date collectors have a great group that publishes a census called the Common Cents Report. Cuds are real neat and popular for late dates/late date collectors. at your budget this is probably your best long term bet - in my opinion. Great Cherrypicking opportunities to - if you don't mind carrying Grellman's book around


In the middle dates you will probably have to settle for lower grades in many cases. You could go for a date set or varieties. Many rare varieties will be out of reach though. You could focus on a date as Jade mentions 1820 or one of my favorites 1817, includes the mouse varieties.


The early dates are pretty expensive and wil typically run several hundred dollars for even decent low grade examples. If you choose an early date, 1798s and 1800 to 1803s offer several varieties with very neat die states and blunders. My favorite - the 98's

good luck and let us know what you decide.

stiffy

1855 has several varieties and is inexpensive. 1839 has lots of interesting varieties.

1823 is a key AND has varieties and a restrike.

But,

I would suggest a 3 coin basic type set. A Bust, Matron Head and Young Head for starters. The dates don't matter then, so you can buy the nicest coin that suits your fancy and pocketbook.

Why settle for one coin, when you could have three?

Ok, just one date?

1803

tjkillian

I would second JadeRareCoin for getting the 1820 Randall hoard. It is a very cool coin with lots of history. It is very available and can be found either raw or slabbed.

Tom

LeeG

<< <i>I like the historic aspect of the Randall Hoard. >>


I agree with the folks on the 1820. This example is one of my favorites that I was very fortunate enough to find right here on the B/S/T.


Sellers pic



My Pic

lkenefic

I agree with Mike ... the 1839 Large Cent gives enough varieties to keep you busy for a while and you won't break the bank doing it in decent grades. If you fancy the earlier Draped Bust Cents...I suggest any of the 1801, 1802, or 1803 years. Any of these have enough Sheldon varieties to keep you busy for a while, but they will be more expensive and harder to attribute than the 1839. Good Luck

Leo

michael

myself

i would do the most historical
hardest to find in xf to choice au
with above average planchet
that are tremendous opportunity coins

the classic head large cents 1814 as this is the ladet year and due to the war of 1812 the planchets used were for the most part spoiled but with a good eye and some searching you can get an above average coin with the most wonderful classic head dated 1814 the last year or the classic head large cents

and the next year planchests were so non existant this is the only year of any cents 1793-2006 where they were not struck

the mint had problems with paying the workmen so they gave them buckets of 1814 cents

most were spent and also you got the cool plain and crosslet 4 in the date also the bearded liberty plain edge variety i think s-295??

and terrific values and a great type coin and it is a uch better and rarer coin then even a draped bust or matron large cent in xf/au with a choice planchet

value and opportunity value and opportunity

matron head large cents common as dirt

classic head large cents especially so 1814 great rarity****** in xf/au and with average++ planchet quality and currently a value opportunity coin

SamByrd

I would suggest an 1838 its a very common coin and you can get a nice original higher grade for a reasonable price, be picky about surfaces and color, its worth the search.

chabot510

jump right in and start with the chain cent!

TheRegulator

Longacre,

I think the so-called Middle Dates would be a good place to start.

Early Dates = Too much money.

Late Dates (post-1843) = Too much of the same.

Middle Dates have quite a bit to offer for the money. As already mentioned, 1839 ("the 1794 of Middle Dates") is a great date for Large Cents with five major head-types and a good number of die varieties. The year 1835 is also pretty interesting with the Old and Young Heads and a number of major varieties and some rarities as well. Cents from the 1830s can be found with phenomenal colors- the golden/honey/tan kinda colors. Lotsa history during the Hard Times as well, with a lot of things going on politically and socially.

The tough thing with the $100-200 budget is that it puts you smack in the middle of the VF-XF range. While those coins offer a lot for the money (and are probably my favorite grades), they just seem to be really tough to find. Plenty of low-grade, problem pieces are around and high grade cents are always available for a price. In my experience, trying to form a nice VF-25 set can be really frustrating. Local coin shows have never yielded anything. In this range you'll likely have to go through specialized copper dealers. Or if you are willing and able to spend a bit more money, higher grade cents might be the way to go.

rec78

I suggest non-Randall hoard dates--1821-1839 EF--some really neat coins in this era. But may be hard to find problem free..1839 is a neat year with all the varieties and the very scarce overdate 1839/6 also. Personally i like 1824--don't know why.

Conder101

With a $200 budget per coin
1793 forget it
Liberty caps All outside of budget except in AG and G 1795 would be doable in those grades, too many impossible 94's 1796 may be possible in those grades.
Draped bust assuming you pass on the NC varieties:
1796 forget it
1797 Very unlikely and there is no way you'll be able to get the S-121a. Three others are doubtful and we are still talking AG.
1798 Forget it S-144 and 178 not obtainable several others doubtful
1799 Forget it
1800 All possible in AG - G except S-198
1801 you'll never get S-217 or 218
1802 This year IS doable probably in VG - F S-238 is the toughest and it is only an R-4. Attribution is fairly easy as well. There is a 1/000 rev, ant two different stemless wreaths
1803 You'll never get he S-264
1804 Forget it
1805 Doable in Fine Only three varieties.
1806 Doable in Fine but only one variety.
1807 Forget it.

Classic heads 1808 - 1814 19 coins for a complete die variety set.
This is an interesting series since none of the dates are truly rare nor are ANY of the varieties. The problem is the series as a whole does not come nice. No year has more than five varieties, most have only one or two. 1809, 11, and 13 are the scarce years but total only five varieties, the rarest being only an R-3. You could take your time and stick to nice surface coins and put together the entire series in VG-F for about $200 per coin but you will spend several years doing so because of the difficulty in finding nice surface coins.


Middle dates.
1816 doable most varieties in VF+
1817 same comment N-12 and 17 will be in low grade
1818 N-4 would be a stopper
1819 Doable in VF or better and there are three R-4 coins
1820 Doable in VF except for N-14 (R-5) which is possible in VG Bonus, three different overdates.
1821 two varieties, doable in Fine
1822 Not possible N-9 could be had in Good but N-13 (poss in Good at twice the budget) and 14 (5 known) are stoppers.
1823 Doable in VG
1824 OK in F- VF except N-5 G - VG
1825 OK in VF except N-1 Fine
1826 OF in VF one not impressive overdate
1827 In VF except N-10 G - VG N-12 not possible except at twice budget in Good.
1828 In VF except N-4 & 12 in VG
1829 Doable in Fine
1830 N-9 and N-11 are stoppers. 11 might be possible in Good at twice budget, N-9 at 15X budget in same grade.
1831 In XF except N-4 VF, N-5 F
1832 XF only three varieties
1833 XF except N-4 VF six varieties
1834 not possible N-5 would be a G and N-7 is 10K in VG
1835 several varieties only at VG or less
1836 XF, N-7 maybe a little lower grade
1837 XF, N-15 and 17 a little lower
1838 Doubtful due to N-15 and 16
1839 Many have suggested this year but N-1 only in Good and N-15 at twice budget in Good. N-12 will also be low grade but the rest are possible in XF


Late dates In general better condition coins are available but attributing is tougher and there tend to be a lot of varieties for each year. From here on I'm just going to mention the "impossible" years/varieties. If a year isn't mentioned then it would be a possible year.

For some reason I find that there seems to be very little interest in the 1840 - 1845 coins and coins better than VF don't seem to me to be as available as they are after 1845. (Frankly I don't seem to see many in lower grades either.)
1846 N-23 CC extends down to Fine
1846 N-25 CC extends down to VG but seems to be available in low grade
1847 N-36 CC extends down to Fine
1847 N-43 Unique
1848 N-32 CC extends down to VG
1848 N-44 R-6 CC down to VG
1848 N-46 two known
1849 N-25 six known
1849 N-30 R-6 CC down to VG
1851 N-42 Unique
1851 N-44 five known
1854 N-30 7 known

Longacre

Outstanding suggestions from everyone so far. I appreciate the time that many took to provide detailed responses. That was exactly what I was looking for!

lkenefic

Conder...you rock!!! I've never seen anyone put Large Cents into those terms before. Alot of really useful information here.


Leo

Longacre

Conder Rocks™


I already sent him a PM personally thanking him for his thorough analysis.

In the entire time I've been on these boards, I've only printed out one thread to keep for posterity. This will be the second one.

michael

conder does rock and always has something good to say collector wise

also classic head large cents better than xf that have choice or close to choice planchets are RARE

Conder101

But you aren't going to get Classics in XF for $200 even with crummy surfaces. Frankly you will find it a real challenge to do such a set in VG with nice surfaces.