This "hobby dinosaur" appears to be on the verge of extinction

dude

I'm referring to the local or regional sports card show.

I went to the Houston Tri-Star show last Friday night and it was downright sad and and at the same time a sham. There were only 5 vintage dealers there (only one of them had quality stuff but his raw cards were priced way beyond what could be found with the same graded cards found on eBay ). Talking to one of the 5 dealers, he vowed not to come again. But looking at Tri-Star's website for confirmed exhibitors, they listed a lot more dealers than were there including at least 3 maybe 4 vintage dealers (definitely Sjolen, Goodwin, & Augusta, and I think Scottsdale). I did the show in 2-1/2 hours. It used to take 1-1/2 days (about 9 hours)! It's clear that these types of shows are a thing of the past and will only get worse until they finally die.

gaspipe26

I fully agree Dan, I was at the last Fort show a couple of weeks ago. It was the last of a string of disappointments for me there. Even the last National was very weak in my opinion.

CDC4

Bob,

Did they determine a new location for the Fort Washington Show in September? I recall one dealer saying they were shutting down the complex.

The cyber age is here. Everything will be ebay, auctions, and websites. No more going to shows to interact with dealers and try and pickup that "great buy."

dude

<< I fully agree Dan, I was at the last Fort show a couple of weeks ago. It was the last of a string of disappointments for me there. Even the last National was very weak in my opinion.>>

Bob,

Yeah, I talked to Scott Bradshaw who was at the Tri-Star show and he said that he set up at Ft. Washington. He told me that he lost $1800 on that trip, which includes gas (driving from San Diego), hotels, food and table fees, etc. He said he's planning to do the National this year but will probably quite doing regionals.

I don't plan to go to the National this year again. Atlantic City was my last one and I could see the writing on the wall.

coachh

I plan to attend the Tri Star in St Louis in a couple of weeks. I have not been to a show in 3 years and if your evaluations are correct, this might (and probably will be) my last.

HouseOfCards

As collectors have learned to navigate eBay (very easy), the .50 cent on a dollar dealer has been dying off. Or at least his inventory. I for one am beyond tired of going to shows to look at over-picked crap. The dream of stumbling onto a dealer with a new find of mint (insert favorite year) cards has become just that, a dream. And do us a favor, take all your '60s thru '70s commons in EX condition or less and BURN THEM!

JonB

Wow, a tristar show... I haven't thought about one of those in a long time.

Thinking back, the last one I went to was at the Arlington convention center (right next to the Ballpark in Arlington, or whatever they are calling it these days) probably about 7 or 8 years ago.

Ripken

St. Louis will have their local club show AND the Tri-Star show the same weekend next month. I believe the club has been threatening dealers who do the Tri Star show that they won't be welcomed back. THAT ought to be an interesting weekend. Last year's Tri Star shows in St. Louis and Cinci were kind of quiet, but still a decent place to look around. You do see the same dealer faces though.

There's no way the internet completely replaces shows. For one thing, it's much easier to fill a want list when you can physically sit and look through thousands of cards in an hour or two. You can pick out 100 vintage cards in an hour and pay for them (no postage required) but doing that on eBay is way too time consuming in most cases. I'm sure dealers are feeling the pinch but I still believe they have to locate new customers and the shows are the easiest place to do that. I'm guessing the ones who survive will be those who price their cards at a reasonable level at the shows. For years, most have refused to believe they should have to compete with eBay on prices. Anyone who doesn't believe he HAS to do that at a show is an idiot. eBay is here to stay.

I don't do shows anymore..and haven't for years..because unless you fork over the big bucks for a table at a major show, there's just no interest in older stuff at your average weekend event and the overnight expenses can kill you at a big show. But I don't have nearly the inventory a lot of guys do. It's probably about time the # of shows was culled a bit. It's not as bad as it was 10 years ago, but there are still an awful lot of shows out there.

gaspipe26

Dan,
I will be passing on the National this year too. I just dont see any reason to go except to see fellow collectors.

ColleSystem

I long for the pre-ebay card shows I remember going to. I remember seeing raw 50s - 70s cards all over the place. Of course, these were also pre-psa shows, so many of them were probably trimmed. Those shows truely are a dinosaur.

Can you imagine putting together a registry set with stellar card shows:
1. No shipping costs
2. You could actually look at the card! I have gotten alot of PSA cards that would be considered "weak" in their graded category. At a show I would simply pass over them.

Does anyone see a Jurasic Park on the horrizon?

Aaronman

I would disagree with many of the statements made so far. Although, I do think the number of shows will continue to diminish, I think it will leave us with a smaller circuit of very good shows. They will be in major cities and most collectors will have to travel to get to them. Traveling to a couple of shows a year (if they are good) should not be too bad. The internet has revolutionized the collectibles markets and I agree anyone that does not see that will wind up fossilized. As far as the shows mentioned, I had an incredible National last year buying raw cards (and a few graded). One of the best shows I ever had for finding cards (especially some odd-ball Aaron & Yaz cards). I also thought the last Ft Washington show was awesome. I was only there one day but I bought close to 600 cards (mostly football). That was a good day's work for me. I went to the White Plains (NY) show this weekend and that was another excellent show. I have probably jinxed my self for the next show but it's been a good run for the last few months.

My $.02,
Doug

JasP24

<< <i>Wow, a tristar show... I haven't thought about one of those in a long time.

Thinking back, the last one I went to was at the Arlington convention center (right next to the Ballpark in Arlington, or whatever they are calling it these days) probably about 7 or 8 years ago. >>



I went to the annual Tri-Star show in Arlington last July and it sucked...Lots of high end stars there signing autographs, but NOTHING for the card collector that you couldn't get cheaper and/or better on ebay. I think I was there for 2 hours tops..Not even worth the price of admission, I won't be returning this year..

Jason

smallstocks

Doug,

I live in White Plains and won't even go to the show. The last one I went to I purchased some vintage and submited it to PSA. Too many trimmed cards from the one dealer I thought trustworthy. Just not worth it for me.

Griffins

I wouldn't go to the Hollywood Park shows except to see friends and drop off submissions. And at the last 2 Nationals I spent more money on ebay at night in my hotel room than I did on the floor.
Shows are good to make the face to face contacts that lead to deals at other times though.

wolfbear

It's a circular argument.

Like many, I wouldn't even be collecting if it were not for eBay,
yet there is not doubt that eBay has made attending most live shows less and less attractive.

Still, I believe the National is worth attending.
If one is willing to put in the effort like Aaronman does, it can be a great experience and quite rewarding.

Not only that, but you'll get a chance to see Mr. Mint up close and personal!

gaspipe26

I dont know I havent seen a MINT raw card from the 60's in quite awhile at a show. Albeit I dont look for Football so maybe there are football raw available. Most vintage baseball is all off grade. Actually now that I think about it there is 1 dealer that had decent raw cards but wants 10x's book for it.

fiveniner

I used to set up some of my vacations around certain card shows in the country so I could attend them.Those days seem to be dwindling down to only a very few.No doubt those days are long past.Too Bad.

qualitycards

Shows ain't what they used to be.
But its still great to walk the floor at a show and see a well stocked dealers table
and perhaps buy something you didn't even know you wanted.
I like display pieces like old advertising regarding baseball, those are hard to search
for on eBay and could get damaged in transit due to their size. So a show is perfect
for that.
Plus its a cheaper way to pick up supplies, since no shipping is involved.
Great way to dig through a dealers common boxes to complete a set.
Save on shipping fees to the graders while handing them you're batch.
And its great to socialize w/ collectors and see dealers that you've built a
relationship with.
Looking forward to the new digs for the Sept Fort Washington show, I hope
they find the right venue...jay

eyebone

I still look forward to attending the semi-annunal Toronto Expo, and the National whenever it is close enough. For me it is not so much about finding high grade cards, but more about the opportunity to get away and relax by spending time enjoying the hobby (talking to dealers, looking at cards I will never be able to afford, stumbling upon some unique item I never knew existed, spending an hour going through some dealers box of mid-grade commons in order to complete a set, etc). This is the kind of experience that one cannot get on ebay, and it is why I desperately hope that good regional shows prosper.

Eyebone

GeneralJim

Did they determine a new location for the Fort Washington Show in September? I recall one dealer saying they were shutting down the complex.


CDC4 ,

I live just outside of Reading Pa. and i can confirm the Expo center in Fort Washington is closing . (according to the local papers ) also there has been talk of a new expo center opening close to Reading , they are hoping to retain some of the shows that the old expo center had , including the Card shows . (great for me as its only a 10 minute drive instead of 1 hour ) . If i hear anything solid i will keep the board updated .

Jim

qualitycards

In June the Ft Washington Expo center will be demolished in favor of a large multi story office building.
The promoter Bob S. would'nt confirm where the show is headed a couple of weeks ago at the last
Fort. There was speculation that they were going to use an old Sams Club in Willoew grove as the show
venue, and others suggested they will build their own building as opposed to having someone else control
their destiny.
I never heard about the Reading option, usually you hear about the Valley Forge/King Of Prussia convention
center. Reading would save me a half hour on my 3 hour trip so I'm all for it...jay

ctsoxfan

If you are using a Tri-Star show as your basis, I can see why you would think card shows are basically dead. The last Tri-Star show I attended (last year, in Mass) was perhaps the worst show I had ever been to, and it was quite depressing to have desperate dealers begging you to look at their EX crap at MT prices. And, if a dealer was selling a graded card, there was no way it was being sold for anything less than 100% of SMR. It was more or less an autograph show - the dealer tables seemed like an afterthought.

The last National for me was AC also, and it probably will be my last. I can't imagine traveling across the country for the chance to maybe find that one-in-a-million NM card that someone forgot to slab. Ebay, and the grading business, have essentially rendered shows obsolete - and I understand the advantages of shows (and still make a point to attend the Fort 4 times a year). It's almost like you go to shows to look at items, and make mental notes to check for the same items on Ebay when you get home that night, because it's a heck of a lot cheaper.

Wabittwax

I set up at shows from 1996 to about 2004 including a couple Nationals and a couple Tri Stars. The whole problem starts at 1 single truth, there just aren't enough collectors anymore. Less buyers will lead to less dealers. That starts the problem of not enough good stuff to look at. Also, dealers must be able to pay expenses so they must make a higher profit per card if they are selling less. That leads people to shop Ebay which kills the shows.

I took about a $1000 loss on each National I did. Setting up there was one of the greatest experiences of my life but I'm done taking losses like that. I made a tiny profit at Tri Stars, it was fun too. My best shows as a dealer though are good 1 day Saturday shows. I can make 10x-20x my table cost on one of those or worst case, break even.

One thing for sure, the years I spent setting up were great. Doing shows took me all over the country. Many nights in hotels, many nights hanging out with other dealers having a few drinks watching a game. Some of the greatest years of my life. I'd go back to that in a second it if ever became profitable again. Beats the hell out of grinding out a real job like I do now.