Eisenhower dollar grading and price

taxbuster1040

Hi All! A question about ike grading. I am really puzzled about the difference between the ms-64 and ms-66 ikes. Also the diff in the price of Ngc vs pcgs ikes selling price. MOst of the time I think i understand the difference between what makes the ms 64 vs 65 or 66 coins. Now i see at heritage, there is a pcgs ike ms 66 from 1971 that is up to $1700.00. If you zoom in on the picture you can see obvious bag marks and scratches on the obverse. To me, that should make it an Ms-64. To me, i wouldnt grade it an ms 65 much less the ms 66 it has from pcgs. To boot, the bidders are paying to me what is moon money. Does the toning on it truly justify the ms-66 grading, or did pcgs and the bidders just get caught up in the toning? Also I have seen that most ngc ikes go for less than pcgs ikes. I have bought some of these. I can tell you under 10 power eyepiece, they look much better than all the scritches on this ike at heritage. I cannot find the reason why the ngc ikes seem to sell for less than the pcgsw ikes. Is there something about grading i dont understand? I would appreciate a detailed discussion.

jayboxx

I don't know about Ikes, but I have seen similar pricing differences when it comes to Mercury dimes.

DHeath

Taxbuster,

I'll offer my opinion. Ikes are extremely difficult to photograph, and images as large as the zoomed Heritage images magnify any flaw. Most "marks" seen on MS Ikes are not marks at all, but rather chatter on the planchet that strike pressure was not able to smooth. Ikes are huge coins, and the clad coins are very hard. 71-72 business strike Ikes are treated slightly differently by the TPG's because they were not available in mint sets, and the quality is generally lower than for subseuqent issues. The P mint 71-72's are generally worse than the D mint coins. Finding a nice mark free, well struck, lusterous 71-P is tough. Finding one with toning is harder. A specialist/set builder would see that coin as a keeper, and the price guide would be secondary. The difference in quality between NGC/PCGS holdered coins is coin specific IMO, and generalizations break down, but I believe an NGC 66 is a PCGS 65. Based on the ones I've holdered at both services, that's my take on the difference in the grading "standard" between the two TPG's. Which one is right? Who cares. The market prices them accordingly. All of this is of course JMO.

Don

DHeath

Just for giggles, I think it's worth sharing some recent results from the two TPG's on a few coins I submitted raw to NGC, cracked, and then submitted to PCGS. It should provide some interesting fodder. NGC blew the cam designation on the SMS coins, and I honestly didn't feel like sending them back for a second look, so I threw them in my PCGS invoice #9049175. Two of the coins dropped from 67 to 65, and one from 66 to 65. All three gained a cameo designation. Which service is right? Neither one matched my grade/designation, as I counted them all as 66 cameo. Go figure.



08984020 1965 50C SMS USA MS65CA
08984021 1965 50C SMS USA MS65CA
08984024 1965 5C SMS USA MS65CA

One of the coins......

SamByrd

My experiance in putting togethor my IKE sets is the pcgs coins are more expensive in the market place, I beileve that the pcgs view IKE of grades is the most conservitive and to be honest I have sold off most of my ngc slabs. I will say though as already said above be selective very often you can get a super high end ms65 in an NGC slab for less then a psgs for a lower end MS65. I have compared many ms66's of the slabs I have seen imo anyway the pcgs is more acurate in grade, there are too many ngc66's that are too close and the market seems to reflect that in pricing. There is also fewer pcgs in the market place at least in ms66 for most dates. IKES are tougher then many realize in ms65 and above even the 64's would be a challenge if the series were to take off in popularity.

taxbuster1040

Very informative..... One more thing. Do the tpg's give very heavy weight to the Luster on the coin? Sometimes it looks to me that with the chatter present, that they gave a couple of points in MS to the fact that alot of luster was present. I have seen coins with practically no chatter come in at ms-64 because they were lacking in luster .... IMHO.... It seems to me very few ikes came from the mint with lots of luster. One more thing. Do you think that anyone(including yourself if you have submitted ikes), dips the ikes in acetone, or olive oil or whatever, to try to enhance the luster, and then therefore is able to end up gaining a point or two? Or will this cause ngc or pcgs to give you a body bag?

DHeath

Luster is IMO one of the single most important determinants of the grade. Dipping strips toning, but it won't add luster.

morgannut2

Coins (silver/clad) are almost never BB'd for dipping. Dipping can remove light haze allowing the underlying luster to show, but you have to know how to neutralize the dip residue. Yes, luster is the biggest component of eye-appeal and grade, but other things starting with marks do define a "maximum grade". At NGC however, I've seen beautifully toned coins with a "maximum grade" of PQ MS64 ( technically) jump to MS66 based on luster and great toning. That happens less at PCGS, So price differences between NGC and PCGS are partly due to techinical grade differences--BUT--and it's a big but----there is also eye-appeal. PLUS the PCGS Registry is much more popular- so there are a lot more bidders with fat wallets IMHO.