So-called dollars confuse me...

MrEureka

What exactly is a "so-called dollar"?

How did HK determine what should be included in the book? Should it have been done differently?

MadMarty

Andy!!! You should know this!!!

MrEureka

Andy!!! You should know this!!!

I agree. That's why I asked the question.

DUIGUY

From wikipedia ;

Hibler and Kappen co-authored the so-called standard on "So-Called Dollars". Their objective was to document a specific set of tokens throughout the history of the United States. Their book "So-Called Dollars", written in 1963, Lists the approximately 1000 tokens that they determined met their standards. This list has become a milestone to collectors since then.

The initials HK represent the designation given by Hibler and Kappen . This book listed tokens that met a specific standard. HK represent the designation given by Hibler and Kappen who co-authored a book called “So-Called Dollars” in 1963. This book listed tokens that met a specific standard. The importance of this is that many Exonumia collectors use the book and its identifiers to determine what to collect.

The HK standards from the So-Called Dollars book are:

1. United States Only.
2. Minimum Diameter- Size 21 (1-5/16 in. or 33 mm.).
3. Maximum Diameter-Size 28 (1-3/4 in. or 45mm.); (exception made for the Bryan Dollars).
4. No holed or looped material unless struck plain also. (exception for the first three HK dollars).
5. No plastic, fiber or similar material unless issued also in one or more metals.
6. No purely presidential or political medals.
7. No school, college or athletic medals; no coin club or U.S. Armed Forces medals.
8. No calendar or store cards; no trade tokens or emergency money.

HK-281

MadMarty

Here you go Andy, I have been imaging some for a collector buddy of mine...

Steve27

From their book:

"For the last eighty-five years or more coin collectors and dealers alike have used the term "so-called dollars" to designate medals of near dollar size, at first of a commemorative or exposition nature, later of a monetary kind."

MrEureka

From their book:

"For the last eighty-five years or more coin collectors and dealers alike have used the term "so-called dollars" to designate medals of near dollar size, at first of a commemorative or exposition nature, later of a monetary kind."

What are some examples of HK pieces of "a monetary kind"?

MrEureka

By the HK standards listed above, would Mardi Gras "doubloons" be considered so-called dollars?

cladking

There are lots of medals that fit their parameters which are not in the book. Many of these
were probably not known to the authors or were considered trivial but there are others for
which it's difficult to determine why they weren't included. There have also been many is-
sued since the book was published in the early '60's. Almost all of these "moderns" are
available for very low prices.

rsdoug81

This is kind of like junior high school. All of us stand around in a group. One person asks a question that none of the rest of us know. He gets mocked, and the rest of us benefit from the answer while acting like we already knew it. We thank you, Andy

DUIGUY

<< <i>From their book:

"For the last eighty-five years or more coin collectors and dealers alike have used the term "so-called dollars" to designate medals of near dollar size, at first of a commemorative or exposition nature, later of a monetary kind."

What are some examples of HK pieces of "a monetary kind"? >>

MrEureka

DUIGUY - Thanks for posting the Pedley Ryan. I didn't realize that silver rounds qualify as so-called dollars!

coinkat

Bryan Dollars...

MrEureka

Bryan Dollars...

But those are political!

Ronyahski

<< <i>This is kind of like junior high school. All of us stand around in a group. One person asks a question that none of the rest of us know. He gets mocked, and the rest of us benefit from the answer while acting like we already knew it. We thank you, Andy >>



I don't see anyone mocking Andy, I thought DUIGUY gave a good answer with the HK standards, and others as well.

I attended ANA summer school last year, and Jeff Shevlin did a session on So-Called Dollars. He's a leading expert with SCD. He's been working on an updated SCD guide for a while now. The HK guide is over 40 years old, and if I recall correctly, he wants to provide updated market information, identify other SCD, but stick with the HK standards.

coinkat

MrEureka:

They are but they are very cool...

rsdoug81

Ronyahski

You're right. No one is mocking Andy. He just got a slight scolding from Marty. The point was, numismatically ignorant people like me get to sit back and enjoy the answers while others ask the questions.

MrEureka

They are but they are very cool...

I agree. Bryan money is fascinating. But they are not SCDs by the HK definition.

DUIGUY

coinkat

okay... you got me on that

Ronyahski

<< <i>Ronyahski

You're right. No one is mocking Andy. He just got a slight scolding from Marty. The point was, numismatically ignorant people like me get to sit back and enjoy the answers while others ask the questions. >>



Count me in. I went to the ANA session because I had absoluetely no clue what a SCD was, and wanted to find out.

worldcoinguy

Nice imaging MadMarty! The design on some of the SCD are very attractive.

MrEureka

I can see how these would be fun to collect!

cladking

Bars are fun and there is a group dedicated to collecting them but they concentrate more on the art bars.

Mardi Gras throws are a massive field and can be done very cheaply until you hit about the 10,000 different area.

Bawdy house tokens are not as much fun as you'd think (research could be a hoot). These are pretty much all
fantasies and most were made in a brief period back in the '60's or '70's. It's very difficult to find anything ex-
cept for these particular items. If you do collect these then you'd want to include all erotica and nudes just
so you can stay awake.

MrSpud

In the Hibler-Kaplan books introduction it says that the first reference book on So-Called Dollars was written in 1953 by Kenney. A while back I requested and received a copy of the 1953 Kenney book from the ANA Library. Here is what it says about the origins of the term So-Called Dollar and what one is:

Here is what the cover looks like:

Conder101

<< <i>What are some examples of HK pieces of "a monetary kind"? >>


The Lesher Dollars

ER

You can get a lot of so-called dollars with this HK.

dealmakr

Hi Andy,

HK listed Mardi Gras Celebration as HK 579 (silver),HK 580 (AL-Bright anodized- should be gold aluminum), HK 581 (Aluminum) from the first issue of Doubloons done by H. A. Sharpe for the Krewe of Rex in 1960. They would fit the catagory of being a so-called dollar as would most Mardi Gras Doubloons that have been issued ever since from many of the Krewes. The other REX issues for that year are as follows;

1960 dated .999 silver
Undated .999 silver HK-579
Uniface .999 silver
Uniface Copper
Leather
Plastic Chip
Gold Aluminum Dated 1960
Gold Aluminum Undated HK-580
Plain Aluminum HK-581

All can be included as HK will allow other materials including plastic/fiber if issued in one or more metals.

regards,

dave

MadMarty

I picked this one up last night on TT.

jonathanb

That's a sweet grade on the Santa Monica piece; they don't usually come that high. I wonder what it will look like in hand? I'm not fond of the coloring in the picture. If it's accurate, I wouldn't be surprised to see some really nice surfaces and luster to make up for it.

jonathan