When a large cent dealer lists a coin "ex-[dealer's name], is that from a collector's or dealer

Longacre

I was looking at the website of a large cent dealer. In a few of his listings, he lists coins are being "ex- Chris McCawley", and "ex-Tom Reynolds". I understand that both of those guys are full time professionals (if I am mistaken on that, please correct me). When there are listings such as this, should I assume that these coins were in the individuals' personal collections, rather than in regular inventory? I know that the EAC marches to the beat of a different drummer, so maybe that is how it works. In a similar context, if someone was selling a southern gold coin, it would be nonsensical to say it is "ex-Doug Winter", because I am sure every single southern gold coin has passed through Winter's hands at one point of another.

rhedden

I do believe it just means that those dealers sold the coin at one point. I have several of those in my collection, and sometimes the other dealer's handwriting is on the flip.

Sunnywood

A pedigree chain is simply a list of successive owners. If the change of ownership was an auction, then the auction appearance is also listed as an event in the pedigree chain. If a dealer owned a coin and sold it, he is part of that pedigree chain. It is not relevant whether is was part of a personal collection or part of professional inventory. I suppose it could get sticky if the dealer had the coin on consignment, and didn't actually own the coin. In some very complete pedigrees, even that is so noted:

ex Owner A; to Owner B; Stack's Sale of the Owner B Collection (6/11/57:349, $500); Owner C; to Owner D by private treaty; to Owner E via Doug Winter.

Sometimes the most recent owner is listed first:

ex Owner E; previously from Owner A; to Owner B; Stack's Sale of the Owner B Collection (6/11/57:349, $500); Owner C; to Owner D by private treaty; to Owner E via Doug Winter.

In this example, Owner A could have been a dealer. Owner B might also have been a dealer - many are the dealers whose inventories and collections have been publicly auctioned. Owners C and D weren't dealers, as the sale to Owner D wouldn't be a "private treaty" (i.e. a direct sale from one collector to another), although that term is often thrown about for anything that isn't a public auction. "via Doug Winter" implies that he brokered the sale or had the coin on consignment, without owning it.

Best,
Sunnywood

Longacre

Thanks, Sunnywood. That is helpful. The coins that I am speaking of are in the $750-$850 range. Are pedigrees tracked even for coins at that level? Or do you think the seller was just indicating that the coin came from a particular dealer for informational purposes only, and was not necessarily concerned with tracking the pedigree? In other words, does the price/rarity of a large cent make a difference as to tracking pedigrees, or are all early coppers tracked in one way or another (to the extent possible)?

oreville

<< <i>The coins that I am speaking of are in the $750-$850 range. Are pedigrees tracked even for coins at that level? >>



Even well below that level!

RTS

Not my sentiment but tidbit from the Numismatica coin slang page...

Pedigree
Misuse of the term provenance to describe previous ownership of a rare or significant coin. Horses and bloodhounds have pedigrees; coins have provenance. In days gone by, a pedigree carried some weight; coins bearing them possessed manna. However, beginning in the 1980s, everyone and his uncle--large cent collectors leading the parade--began appending lengthy so-called pedigrees to otherwise meaningless coins. Examples like the following, culled from Superior Galleries' 1991 G. Lee Kuntz auction of large cents: Lot 601. 1852. Newcomb-4. Rarity-1. Mint State 60. Ex. Abner Kreisberg M.B.S. 9/67:500--R. E. Naftzger, Jr.--Del Bland 11/76. (It's a blasted R-1 1852 large cent, for word removed sake!) Or how about this ditty entitled "Double Struck Sheldon-120B Tied for Fourth Finest Known"? Tied for fourth finest? We find, after sludging through an awful, wordy description that it was, more properly, "tied for fourth finest known with two or three others." The cataloger's definitive statement is followed by the usual endless string of past owners.

1798CentCollector

In the case you are talking about the coins were most likely handled (bought and sold) by Tom and Chris. Typically, when you see a well known dealers name attached to a coin, it's not a coin that was privately owned by that dealer - unless it hapens to be a very high grade CC piece that may have resided in a dealers personal collection. Most copper dealers are collectors and if you have been around EAC long enough you know what they collect. The CC does encompass coins down to the $750 level. Noyes currently lists up to 25 examples for each variety in his book and the NumisStudy DVD project cointains photos of many coins. A dealer's name in this instance is not particularily important. - in my opinion.