Senator thinks coin recovered from Confederate submarine is worth $8-$10 million

Michigan

For your laugh of the day. Something not so negative this time.

Unsuspecting taxpayers in South Carolina have spent nearly $100 million trying to preserve a Confederate submarine. This boondoggle has been the pet project of the president pro tem of the state Senate, who also happens to be a Civil War reenactor.

For years now Glenn McConnell has been using his position of power to channel money to the preservation of the H.L. Hunley, which sank in 1863. McConnell hopes to turn the failed ship into a tourist spot.

Already a $3 million exhibit about the sunken "treasure" has failed to generate interest.

Now McConell and his fellow "buffs" hope to build a $42 million museum, though they have done no feasibility studies to see if anybody cares enough about a failed boat manned by a failed army.

To date, the project has cost $97 million, most of it -- 85% -- from the pockets of the people of South Carolina. In October of 1997 McConnell claimed it would take "between $5-10 million to conserve it, to house it and to endow it."

John Crangle, head of the citizens watchdog group Common Cause, is disgusted.

"It's a stealth strategy," Crangle said. "The whole scheme involves rivers of underground money flowing to the Hunley from many sources, and the obvious intent is to not let people know."

The Hunley was raised form the ocean floor six years ago. It may be another seven to ten years before it's done.

"The Hunley turned out to be a much bigger project than I anticipated," said Robert Neyland, former head of the Hunley project.

Latley, McConnell has been stoking interest in the project with lies. He claims that a coin recovered from the wreckage is worth $8 - $10 million.

"That's absurd," said John Pack, auction director of the American Numismatic Rarities.

Austin Sheheen, who specializes in Civil War currency agrees.

"High six figures is the most it would bring," Sheheen said.

McConnell recently told an audience at Clemson University that the Hunley was "the first beginning of the modern submarine."

By most any measure, the Hunley was just another submarine. In fact, its greatest contribution to sub technology may have been its glaring design flaw, says sub expert Spencer Dunmore. The vessels fore and aft ballasts were open at the top.

"With any serious tilting of the vessel, water would pour out of these tanks into the crew compartment," Dunmore wrote in his book "Lost Subs."

Almost 150 years later, the H.L. Hunley is sinking yet again.

morgannut2

I presume this is a quote and not your words per se. The Hundley is NOT "a failed boat from a failed army". It was the first successful submarine (a ship, not a boat) to attack and sink a enemy ship--as part of the CSA Navy--not army. The successor US ships that followed, among other things, sank more Japanese tonnage than the rest of the US Navy--and was a mainstay of our defenses during the Cold War. The whole museum seems like a typical boodoggle--but the Hundley has a major place in our US armed Forces history, totally beyond it's small part in the Civil War. They have spent a good bit on the Civil War USS Monitor too by the way (the first US Ironclad) but fortunately they only raised part of the ship--and saved money by making the wreck a submerged National Historic Park.

100proof1957

Didnt Clive Cussler (nom de plume) fund much of the search and recovery cost's ?

michael

good lets split the difference and let the senator buy it for 9 million

meos1

Cussler sure did fund a good bit of the recovery process. But McConnell has been on the sidelines raving on for quiet a while. Yeah, He is way off base to invest this kind of money into these non-common good facilities and programs. I live in SC and consider the Hunley to be a real American treasure. The coin is unique and as the definition outlines "like none to be found" it is a POP1 coin. But its not worth 8M-10M. I think that it is worth more than a "six figure" sum however.

As to the value and place in history in the CSS Hunley, It was the first sub to sink an enemy vessel. Mr. Dunmore is marginalizing and minimizing the accomplishments of the crew and the advanced technology of the CSS Hunley.

Who says that? I say that!

Dan

Scioto

You can own a copy of the $20 gold piece.





I do.

morgannut2

--you get it Meos1. It's not some dumb bridge in Alaska

meos1

Thanks MorganNut2. And I have one of those replicas!

Scioto

The picture doesn't really show just how bent the coin is. Shape resembles a saddle. Dixon was correct when he called it his "Life Preserver".

kryptonitecomics

I also think it's a National treasure and feel the coin is worth more than 6 figures but certainly don't know exactly what it would ultimately sell for...................fascinating story....seems like some other folks could help fund the Museum project other than just the tax payers if this much money has already been spent?

Tarmac

While historic you have to ask is it worth $100 MILLION to salvage something few know about and even fewer care?

Think of all the flack jackets it could buy for soldiers in Iraq, how many immunizations it could pay for, how many prenatal or breast/prostate cancer screenings it could pay for.

Funny how people waste money when it isn't theirs to spend?

orie

Scioto's link is interesting, chocked full of the sub and crew's history.

Michigan

<< <i>I presume this is a quote and not your words per se. The Hundley is NOT "a failed boat from a failed army". It was the first successful submarine (a ship, not a boat) to attack and sink a enemy ship--as part of the CSA Navy--not army. The successor US ships that followed, among other things, sank more Japanese tonnage than the rest of the US Navy--and was a mainstay of our defenses during the Cold War. The whole museum seems like a typical boodoggle--but the Hundley has a major place in our US armed Forces history, totally beyond it's small part in the Civil War. They have spent a good bit on the Civil War USS Monitor too by the way (the first US Ironclad) but fortunately they only raised part of the ship--and saved money by making the wreck a submerged National Historic Park. >>




You presume right - not my words.

UncleWiggly

<< <i>I presume this is a quote and not your words per se. The Hundley is NOT "a failed boat from a failed army". It was the first successful submarine (a ship, not a boat) to attack and sink a enemy ship--as part of the CSA Navy--not army. The successor US ships that followed, among other things, sank more Japanese tonnage than the rest of the US Navy--and was a mainstay of our defenses during the Cold War. The whole museum seems like a typical boodoggle--but the Hundley has a major place in our US armed Forces history, totally beyond it's small part in the Civil War. They have spent a good bit on the Civil War USS Monitor too by the way (the first US Ironclad) but fortunately they only raised part of the ship--and saved money by making the wreck a submerged National Historic Park. >>




I thought the 1st successful submarine to sink an enemy ship was the Turtle from the U.S. Revolutionary War.



Jerry

Scioto

Nope. Turtle was unable to penetrate the copper bottom of the ship it was "attacking".

morgannut2

I could easily be wrong, but my memory is the Turtle's "torpedo" only sank the Turtle. Of coarse the concept of an attack sub has been around at least since D'Vinci proposed one, so there could be others.

Scioto

Turtle - from Wikipedia

UncleWiggly

Thanks for the Turtle link! That was interesting. At least I knew it was the 1st submarine to do something. SINK!



Jerry

FullStepJeffs

I'm thinking that the only $20 from the Hunley, the coin that supposedly stopped a musket ball and saved the future Captain of the Hunley, the coin that sat in the ocean for 140+ years or so, and would probably end up EVENTUALLY in the ballpark of 8 - 10 million... probably not the first time it sells, but the second or third.

It just depends on who is actually bidding on the coin at the time it sells.

Heck, it's definitely unique!

I won't be the buyer, but someone out there within the forum might be...

Steve

topstuf

Maybe it was a sixth copy of the 1913 Lib nickel. And....the solution to its origin. A ...PRE-TEST of the design by a few decades.

kiyote

I have to admit, I think this coin is the most valuable coin in the country. It's not some clandestine midnight operation done by a small group of people looking to make a quick buck; it's a real coin and it is oozing with history.

Would you rather own this coin or the current king, the '33 Saint? I'll take the Hunley gold any day.

DocMortar

How ironic that a poster named Michigan would belittle the Hunley. (Art thou a Yankee Sir?) There probably were some good Michiganders serving aboard the Housatonic that night. (A failed ship and a failed crew). Have you ever been to Charleston, SC? Do you like GRITS? Our history is very important and must be preserved. You cannot imagine the cash that liitle vessel has infused into the Charleston economy. People are interested and it already has been well visited at the current location and will prove to be a well visited exhibit when they are finished with the conservation efforts. By the way there were 6,000 reenactors at the Hunley crew funeral as well as 20,000 visitors to the city of Charleston that day. People do care and you are wrong.

Michigan

The value of the coin is in its historical association. While the Hunley is interesting to civil war buffs it is somewhat
obscure except to civil war specialists. I doubt it would be worth a seven figure price, I think you would have to do some
comparisons with what other civil war items that can be documented to certain people, places etc. to get an idea
of what it might be worth.

Michigan

<< <i>How ironic that a poster named Michigan would belittle the Hunley. (Art thou a Yankee Sir?) There probably were some good Michiganders serving aboard the Housatonic that night. (A failed ship and a failed crew). Have you ever been to Charleston, SC? Do you like GRITS? Our history is very important and must be preserved. You cannot imagine the cash that liitle vessel has infused into the Charleston economy. People are interested and it already has been well visited at the current location and will prove to be a well visited exhibit when they are finished with the conservation efforts. By the way there were 6,000 reenactors at the Hunley crew funeral as well as 20,000 visitors to the city of Charleston that day. People do care and you are wrong. >>




Good grief, I'm not belittling the Hunley, the comments came from an article posted online, they are not my words.


I am a yankee of course and am glad they won the war but I'm not into putting down the south (hey I like Confederate
currency as well)

goose3

The coin and the story that surround it are nothing short of fascinating.

If the coin were to go to auction I would be surprised if it went for even 1 mil.....


I can't think of another single coin or token with a better history behind it.

coindeuce

I can see the Hunley coin being worth $8-$10 million...face value in Confederate currency!!!

meos1

Michigan did not write the article. But after a short interview with Senator McConnell the following is evident.
1. SC legislature has appropriated only 17M to the CSS Hunley project.
2. Clemson University is interested in creating a preservation studies program. The 100M everyone is accusing him of wanting to spend is being put into a pending appropriation bill for the CSS Hunley program by another SC lawmaker.
3. 50M is the highest estimate possible for the CSS Hunley museum. At that level of spending the building as currently envisioned would need to completed with the finest Italian marble, gilt fixtures, and mahogany paneling.

Sure, there are plenty of other needs we could spend the money on. But in this case Senator McConnell is being paint with a wide brush by a few uninformed nay sayers. Got to have your facts straight. Something which is a rare occurance around these parts.

Dan

KoinDawg

At Vicksburg National Park here is Mississippi, we have old IRONSIDES that was brought off the bottom of "big muddy" where its skeleton was salvaged and museum attached. The museum is a wonderful place to browse for hours. They have belongings of sailors, old medical tools, tin cups, watches, coins. I enjoy going there at least once a year to spend the day. And I'm not even a Rebel. I'm a Californian living in Rebel territory. Since I grew up "out west" our history of the civil war was never taught as the "War of Northern Aggression" and I never really got the feel for the proud heritage of Southern culture. I'm glad we have old IRONSIDES and the museum. It's one of the places to see when you travel I20 east or west.

Hope SC finally gets their sub and museum.

topstuf

Why does Michigan hate the South?

kiyote

<< <i>The value of the coin is in its historical association. >>



I think Hunley would beg to differ, seeing how he got to keep both legs... how many coins do you know of that *save* lives? A lot of the value in the current 800 lb gorillas are it's historical association. If you own a 1913 Liberty Head, you're joining a very small, well documented elite group of people who have done so. Isn't history a huge reason most coins have any value at all?

KoinDawg

Canada has the breast cancer coin that funds research to save lives.

rmoss

I live next door in North Carolina and have been to Charleston many times to visit friends there. Right after the Hunley was raised I asked my friends to ride by the site where it was stored. One time in Augusta Georgia I rode by Augusta National just to see the place. Things do attract people. As to raising money for the museum. When I was in second grade in 1957 the state asked that every school child donate a dime to bring the USS North Carolina home. We did and it was done. I had the chance a few years ago to finally visit the ship. What an experience. The thoughts of what the ship had been through and the men that served on her were overwhelming. There are ways to get anything done without all this controversy.

Edited for spelling.

PerryHall

I'd rather own the Hunley double eagle than the 1913 Liberty nickel. Its a real coin with real history. Also, its unique.

1jester

<< <i>I'd rather own the Hunley double eagle than the 1913 Liberty nickel. >>



Me too. And, as Goose says, the coin and its history are nothing short of fascinating. Even barely believable.

I'm from South Carolina (family's been there since 1755) and personally I'd like to see this famous, ground-breaking submarine preserved.

Michigan

<< <i>Why does Michigan hate the South?

>>




Hate? nah. I forgive them for their transgressions of the past. I must however refer to it as
"the war of southern arrogance" rather than "the war of northern aggression".

Jcarney

<< <i>Funny how people waste money when it isn't theirs to spend? >>



And this is the entire crux of the problem. Now multiply this by many, many idiotic politicians with their pet pork projects and you get an idea why this country is mired in $8 trillion of debt.

Louis

The Hunley was used to fight terrorism.

Whitby

fascinating coin, detracted by a Senator riding the good ship lollipop

Michigan

<< <i>The Hunley was used to fight terrorism. >>




You mean they were fighting against themselves?

Numisone

<< <i>While historic you have to ask is it worth $100 MILLION to salvage something few know about and even fewer care?

Think of all the flack jackets it could buy for soldiers in Iraq, how many immunizations it could pay for, how many prenatal or breast/prostate cancer screenings it could pay for.

Funny how people waste money when it isn't theirs to spend? >>



With all due respect;

While of course you are correct in your statement, the same logic was used in closing the National Coin Collection in Washington DC. While millions of people could care less about the history and beauty of our coinage, to some, it is a national treasure that should remain in the public view.
The Hunley also is a national treasure. The fact that few people care should not be the determining factor. Should we now consider stopping the restoration of the battle flag that flew over Fort McHenry simply because most people could care less to see it?

While it may not be the main focus of most Americans, it is none the less a national treasure.

Now for the millions wasted, I would farther rather see millions wasted restoring a pure link to American history, than the billions that we send in (loans) to countries who could not care less about America.

Whitby

<< <i>

<< <i>While historic you have to ask is it worth $100 MILLION to salvage something few know about and even fewer care?

Think of all the flack jackets it could buy for soldiers in Iraq, how many immunizations it could pay for, how many prenatal or breast/prostate cancer screenings it could pay for.

Funny how people waste money when it isn't theirs to spend? >>



With all due respect;

While of course you are correct in your statement, the same logic was used in closing the National Coin Collection in Washington DC. While millions of people could care less about the history and beauty of our coinage, to some, it is a national treasure that should remain in the public view.
The Hunley also is a national treasure. The fact that few people care should not be the determining factor. Should we now consider stopping the restoration of the battle flag that flew over Fort McHenry simply because most people could care less to see it?

While it may not be the main focus of most Americans, it is none the less a national treasure.

Now for the millions wasted, I would farther rather see millions wasted restoring a pure link to American history, than the billions that we send in (loans) to countries who could not care less about America. >>



You da man!

JoesMaName

As soon as I read: 'Now McConell and his fellow "buffs" hope to build a $42 million museum, though they have done no feasibility studies to see if anybody cares enough about a failed boat manned by a failed army.'
I suspected this article was a red herring masking it's true intent - to excite people about the ship and raise interest. A guarantied method to raise a ground swell of support for dubious endeavors is to belittle the sacrifices of a people's fallen heros. Worked great for Bush, why not the Hunley Project? Way more effective then just asking the 4 mil people of SC: "Hey Mr/Ms would you be willing to donate $25.00 to raise and preserve an archeological treasure - the Hunley?"

Personally I'm glad it happened, I love history and archeology as probably most coin collectors do but for the population of SC to front such an expense without any real say seems wrong - I suppose no federal money could be obtained, Although I bet it was for the recovery of the Monitor...

Scioto

Federal funds to restore Jefferson Davis' retirement home.

topstuf

<< <i>"the war of southern arrogance" rather than "the war of northern aggression". >>



Aiyeeee! Yew better start a-runnin....BOY! Yew cain't git away. They got them thar NASCAR cars ta chase ya down.

JoesMaName

<< <i>The Hunley was used to fight terrorism. >>



LOL!

Cladiator

<< <i>fascinating coin, detracted by a Senator riding the good ship lollipop >>

Exactly.

ms70

I've visited the Hunley, saw the artifacts, the coin, and know of it's history. I think it's an important U.S. Historical item as well as one of the most important pieces of maritime
history even though it's not very widely recognized. However funding should be farmed out and not just footed by the South Carolina taxpayer.

Michigan

<< <i>

<< <i>"the war of southern arrogance" rather than "the war of northern aggression". >>



Aiyeeee! Yew better start a-runnin....BOY! Yew cain't git away. They got them thar NASCAR cars ta chase ya down.

>>




I ain't afraid of any Confederate flags on the dashboard etc., all them NASCAR cars do is go round and round
an oval track, with that poor sense of direction I doubt they could find me.

If those Rebs come around here they will get a lickin from this Yankee.

ms70

<< <i>If those Rebs come around here they will get a lickin from this Yankee. >>



Just keep in mind more Yankees died in the Civil War than Confederates.

meos1

Federal money was part of the CSS Hunley project but only after the ship was raised and brought to Charleston.

Editted for spelling.

Michigan

<< <i>

<< <i>If those Rebs come around here they will get a lickin from this Yankee. >>



Just keep in mind more Yankees died in the Civil War than Confederates. >>




Well, I'll even out those numbers.