Mex 8 reales opinions?

tbirde56

Here is a Mexican 1786 8 reales.
I would like your opinions on its authenticity, its grade and its possible value.

theboz11

open 8 variety?

CIVITAS

Looks authentic in the pictures. Would probably sell as a VF for which there is a current wholesale buy for $50.00 on common portrait 8Rs. With the scratch across the front, I don't know what the final price on such a coin would be.

GDJMSP

Boy this is gonna be a first !! Never thought I'd see the day that I'd disagree with you Josh - but I think it's a fake.

Brad - can you weigh the coin ?

coachleonard

looks real to me, right down to the edge markings. not that it COULDN'T be an excellent fake. I guess a tell-tale sign would be if it was noticeably lightweight

CIVITAS

<< <i>Boy this is gonna be a first !! Never thought I'd see the day that I'd disagree with you Josh - but I think it's a fake.

Brad - can you weigh the coin ? >>





Well, I'm certainly open to the possibility. Color looked a little funny to me, but I chalked it up to lighting and possible cleaning/retoning.

Of course, now that you mention it, the fields don't seem to have the right depth, do they? Hmm.

You thinking contemporary or modern, Doug? I'm still on the fence overall.

Lynch

<< <i>

<< <i>Boy this is gonna be a first !! Never thought I'd see the day that I'd disagree with you Josh - but I think it's a fake.

Brad - can you weigh the coin ? >>





Well, I'm certainly open to the possibility. Color looked a little funny to me, but I chalked it up to lighting and possible cleaning/retoning.

Of course, now that you mention it, the fields don't seem to have the right depth, do they? Hmm.

You thinking contemporary or modern, Doug? I'm still on the fence overall. >>




The color on the portrait looks like a copper core showing through a silver wash (but that could be just the lighting and if actually present would almost certainly say "fake"). If it really is copper showing through, that suggests a contemporary counterfeit.

tbirde56

Well, this isn't my coin but the owner wanted opinions on it and I am less than qualified on these. So I told him I'd post it here for more expert opinions and gave him the link to it.

From the seller:
'It has some copper tone, but a bit less than the picture appears.
It weighs .9 ounces and is about 39.5mm in diameter.'

I'd assume the weight isn't real accurate but if it is then it would be a couple grams short.
Thanks for all the feedback so far!!!

Lynch

<< <i>Well, this isn't my coin but the owner wanted opinions on it and I am less than qualified on these. So I told him I'd post it here for more expert opinions and gave him the link to it.

From the seller:
'It has some copper tone, but a bit less than the picture appears.
It weighs .9 ounces and is about 39.5mm in diameter.'

I'd assume the weight isn't real accurate but if it is then it would be a couple grams short.
Thanks for all the feedback so far!!! >>



These portrait 8 reales were widely accepted trade coins because of their reliable weight and good silver content. Is it copper-colored toning or actual copper that is being seen? If it is copper, then it is definitely a fake.

ormandh

The side angle looks to be silver. If there was a side angle with the obverse showing I bet you could tell if it is copper showing through or just the lighting. JMHO. -Dan

edited to add: It definitely has been cleaned.

coinkat

I believe the coin is authentic, however, it has been cleaned and would not get a grade at a TPG. I think Josh said $50... and I think that is about right.

Aethelred

Looks like a real Real to me.

GDJMSP

I agree Josh, the relief just aint there - but that's only part of it. On the obverse, normally with these the only lumpy area is on the neck. But with this coin, the entire surface is what I call lumpy - even the fields which are normally especially smooth except for contact marks. And the legends are just too shallow and have uneven, ragged edges. Normally they are quite sharp and precise. Even the edge design is almost smooth and there's not enough wear to warrant that.

But the reverse is what keyed me - look between the left pillar and the crown, see the three raised marks ? If that were gold coin Josh, what would you be saying ?

I think it's a modern fake.

stevedesp

This is my coin and I asked Brad to help me, so he posted it here. I really appreciate the feedback. I'm pretty new to collecting and this was my first 8 Reale purchase. I am hoping to get a genuine piece of history to share with my kids, etc. Cost/investment value is not a huge factor but I'd like to tell everyone it's real and not a fake. The lighting doesn't quite show it right, as photos tend to do. Lynch, it does not have copper showing through, just a little light brown/ copper tone in spots. ormandh, the side is silver where it meets the obverse, not copper. GDJMSP, It does have the small raised marks between the pillar and crown. I weighed it on the scale when I picked it up at the Post Office. The weight was .9 ounces, so somewhere in the 25-28 gram weight, which is about right from my understanding. Thanks everyone! - Steve

1jester

To me, the edge alone points to the coin being a fake, because it doesn't have nearly enough relief. The edge design should be about 4-5 times deeper. Indeed, looking at the first picture that shows the edge, it is impossible to overlook how shallow the relief is on the whole coin. And the funny marks in the field are unwarranted on a genuine coin.

In my opinion, it's a clear fake.



PS: Steve, welcome to the Darkside!! I wish you much luck and happiness with coin collecting, and I heartily recommend the dealers on this forum, as well as other members, to share knowledge and advice.

GDJMSP

Steve -

If you take the coin by a jewelry store they can give you an accurate weight. These are the tolerances - maximum 27.2639 grams - mimimum 26.8646 grams.