Jimmy Smith(JAX WR) retires
donnnster
Posts: 266
in Sports Talk
donnnster
Posts: 266
Comments
Sounds nice until you see the numbers of the guys that haven't been elected yet:
All-time NFL receptions leaders
Jerry Rice 1,549
Cris Carter 1,101
Tim Brown 1,094
Andre Reed 951
Art Monk 940
Marvin Harrison 927
Jimmy Smith 862
He had to overcome quite a bit during his career and was a great player. Sorry to see him go but I'm glad he didn't hang around long after his talents had diminished.
Scott
T-205 Gold PSA 4 & up
1967 Topps BB PSA 8 & up
1975 Topps BB PSA 9 & up
1959 Topps FB PSA 8 & up
1976 Topps FB PSA 9 & up
1981 Topps FB PSA 10
1976-77 Topps BK PSA 9 & up
1988-89 Fleer BK PSA 10
3,000 Hit Club RC PSA 5 & Up
My Sets
JS
This is the last line in the article...exactly what records does he hold? I was unaware he held any receiving records?
<< <i>"He made the most of his chance and set receiving records that could be hard to break."
This is the last line in the article...exactly what records does he hold? I was unaware he held any receiving records? >>
They must be referring to team records.
T-205 Gold PSA 4 & up
1967 Topps BB PSA 8 & up
1975 Topps BB PSA 9 & up
1959 Topps FB PSA 8 & up
1976 Topps FB PSA 9 & up
1981 Topps FB PSA 10
1976-77 Topps BK PSA 9 & up
1988-89 Fleer BK PSA 10
3,000 Hit Club RC PSA 5 & Up
My Sets
JS
<< <i>Nice of him to wait after the draft too...the jags have NADA at the reciever corps now!
JS >>
Seems like the coach knew he was on the verge of retiring anyways.
Jimmy Smith is a HOFer..Only guy more dominant over the last 10 years was Marvin Harrison..Show me another guy with better stats...Not only that, but he did it with style..He wasn't JUST a numbers guy..He made BIG catches and performed at his best in the 4th quarter.
Isn't that the true measure of greatness? How WRs stack up against their peers from the same time frame? And half of those years(after McCardell left) he did it against double teams much of time, to include having the other teams top DB focused on him every game.
The Jags drafted WR, WR, TE in the first round of the last 3 drafts...If they have NADA at the WR position, then the entire front office needs to be fired. They are young at the position, but they have at least 3 guys (Matt Jones, Ernest Wilford, and Reggie Williams) with the talent to go to the next level..All they need is for one of them to step up...
He's been talking retirement since the end of last season, this is no surprise. He's 37 and a WR..He had another 1,000+ season last year to cap his great career.
I'm a Jags fan and a Jacksonville native..I've watched 90% of all Jaguars games since they came into the league, Jimmy was as good as they get. Anyone saying otherwise hasn't seen this guy play...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>You guys are way off....
Jimmy Smith is a HOFer..Only guy more dominant over the last 10 years was Marvin Harrison..Show me another guy with better stats...Not only that, but he did it with style..He wasn't JUST a numbers guy..He made BIG catches and performed at his best in the 4th quarter.
>>
Oh here it comes...he's 'clutch' right?
Only guy more dominant was Harrison? Uhm...what about 2 guys named Moss and Owens? Smith will be a borderline HoFer, and he sure isn't likely to get it on his first go around. Hell, Monk has better numbers, played for championship teams, and still isn't in. Hell, Isaac Bruce has better numbers.
<< <i>Isn't that the true measure of greatness? How WRs stack up against their peers from the same time frame? And half of those years(after McCardell left) he did it against double teams much of time, to include having the other teams top DB focused on him every game.
>>
And you still think he has better numbers than Owens or Moss? When did Owens ever have a top flight WR opposite him? He's always been the double coverage guy.
<< <i>The Jags drafted WR, WR, TE in the first round of the last 3 drafts...If they have NADA at the WR position, then the entire front office needs to be fired. They are young at the position, but they have at least 3 guys (Matt Jones, Ernest Wilford, and Reggie Williams) with the talent to go to the next level..All they need is for one of them to step up...
He's been talking retirement since the end of last season, this is no surprise. He's 37 and a WR..He had another 1,000+ season last year to cap his great career.
I'm a Jags fan and a Jacksonville native..I've watched 90% of all Jaguars games since they came into the league, Jimmy was as good as they get. Anyone saying otherwise hasn't seen this guy play...
Jason >>
He's as good as they get, if you want a guy who's injury prone and has addiction problems, sure.
Blind eloquence once again from the resident Hole.
How does that a$$ hat fit Ax?
<< <i>
<< <i>You guys are way off....
Jimmy Smith is a HOFer..Only guy more dominant over the last 10 years was Marvin Harrison..Show me another guy with better stats...Not only that, but he did it with style..He wasn't JUST a numbers guy..He made BIG catches and performed at his best in the 4th quarter.
>>
Oh here it comes...he's 'clutch' right?
Only guy more dominant was Harrison? Uhm...what about 2 guys named Moss and Owens? Smith will be a borderline HoFer, and he sure isn't likely to get it on his first go around. Hell, Monk has better numbers, played for championship teams, and still isn't in. Hell, Isaac Bruce has better numbers.
<< <i>Isn't that the true measure of greatness? How WRs stack up against their peers from the same time frame? And half of those years(after McCardell left) he did it against double teams much of time, to include having the other teams top DB focused on him every game.
>>
And you still think he has better numbers than Owens or Moss? When did Owens ever have a top flight WR opposite him? He's always been the double coverage guy.
<< <i>The Jags drafted WR, WR, TE in the first round of the last 3 drafts...If they have NADA at the WR position, then the entire front office needs to be fired. They are young at the position, but they have at least 3 guys (Matt Jones, Ernest Wilford, and Reggie Williams) with the talent to go to the next level..All they need is for one of them to step up...
He's been talking retirement since the end of last season, this is no surprise. He's 37 and a WR..He had another 1,000+ season last year to cap his great career.
I'm a Jags fan and a Jacksonville native..I've watched 90% of all Jaguars games since they came into the league, Jimmy was as good as they get. Anyone saying otherwise hasn't seen this guy play...
Jason >>
He's as good as they get, if you want a guy who's injury prone and has addiction problems, sure. >>
You obviously know nothing about NFL football...Instead of throwing out bogus opinions, check the stats and tell me who had better stats the last 10 years....Not Owens, not Bruce, not Moss..ONLY marvin Harrison has been more consistently good as Jimmy Smith...Monk had better overall numbers because he played longer than Smith...Monk has 70+ catches and 500+ more yards in 45 MORE career games...Had Jimmy not missed his first 2 seasons due to injury, he'd easily have better numbers than Monk...And the fact that Monk is not in the HOF yet is a crime, but thats another story.
Yes, he was CLUTCH, i'll post his highlight reel tonight or tomorrow and you'll see how many game winning catches and TDs he scored in his career. More than just the numbers, Smith did it with style...Off the field problems are off the field..On the field there wasn't a DB in the league that could shut Jimmy down.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
You obviously know nothing about NFL football...Instead of throwing out bogus opinions, check the stats and tell me who had better stats the last 10 years....Not Owens, not Bruce, not Moss..ONLY marvin Harrison has been more consistently good as Jimmy Smith...Monk had better overall numbers because he played longer than Smith...Monk has 70+ catches and 500+ more yards in 45 MORE career games...Had Jimmy not missed his first 2 seasons due to injury, he'd easily have better numbers than Monk...And the fact that Monk is not in the HOF yet is a crime, but thats another story.
Yes, he was CLUTCH, i'll post his highlight reel tonight or tomorrow and you'll see how many game winning catches and TDs he scored in his career. More than just the numbers, Smith did it with style...Off the field problems are off the field..On the field there wasn't a DB in the league that could shut Jimmy down. >>
If Smith is so superior, please tell me why Owens, in 37 fewer games, has 34 MORE TD's than Smith? Of course Smith is going to have more yards and receptions, as he's been playing longer. If Owens doesn't sit out this year, he'd be right on Smith's heels in yards. Moss has him whipped in TD's too, Moss has 31 more TDs than Smith in 54 (!) fewer games. Bruce has more TD (10), 9 fewer yards, and nearly a yard per catch better than Smith, in 12 fewer games.
Look, Smith was a solid receiver, but to say that he was better over the past decade than anyone not named Harrison is simply short sighted.
“We nicknamed him “J-Smooth” because he made everything look so easy. Jimmy is clearly one of the best receivers to touch the field. He was one of the most consistent players in the NFL, with his great combination of speed and power and elite route running ability. I loved competing against him because he always brought out the best in me. I will miss him as a competitor, and the league will miss him as a man. I wish him nothing but the best.”
Carolina Panthers and former Jaguars Offensive Line Coach Mike Maser
“Jimmy Smith was one of the better clutch receivers I've been around in my career. He always seemed to come up with the big play when it was needed. He was a professional and prepared himself well. Jimmy was a great team player and was always ready to play. I'm sorry to see him go.”
Baltimore Ravens CB Deion Sanders
“Jimmy might not have the national recognition of Jerry Rice at the WR position, but every defensive back that has played in the 1990's to current, and every defensive coach in the league knows exactly who he is. He will go down in history as one of the best.”
Tennessee Titans Head Coach Jeff Fisher
“For years he has been one of the top receivers in the NFL, while others around the league received more attention. He is one of the more difficult receivers to defend against and he shows up week after week after week.”
Indianapolis Colts Head Coach Tony Dungy
“A tremendous receiver, a competitor. He has the great speed and acceleration out of the cuts. He catches the deep ball well. He's physically a tough guy. He just has what you look for in a receiver. And now he's at the point where he still has the physical skills, but he has a great deal of experience and he knows what he's doing out there. He's just one of the best receivers that's played in this era.”
Denver Broncos CB Champ Bailey
“Jimmy Smith is the toughest wide receiver I've faced. He just works so hard and plays the game with so much intensity that he's difficult to stop. Every year, and I'm not sure why, he just doesn't get the attention he deserves. But he's one of the best receivers in the NFL.”
Baltimore Ravens CB Samari Rolle
“Jimmy has no weaknesses. He can play anyway he needs to. He can play the physical game. He can play the finesse game. Or he can run by you. That's why I think he's the best receiver in the league.”
St. Louis Rams WR Isaac Bruce
“Jimmy Smith is one of the most unheralded wide receivers ever to play in the National Football League. He is one of the best route runners that I have ever seen. He is very explosive. Truly, truly a Hall of Famer.”
Jacksonville Jaguars OT Tony Boselli
“He was arguably the best receiver in football for awhile but no one knew it. He never took himself seriously. He always played the game hard.”
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
1992 dal | 007 | 0
1994 phi | 001 | 0
1995 jax | 016 | 022 0288 13.1 3
1996 jax | 016 | 083 1244 15.0 7
1997 jax | 016 | 082 1324 16.1 4
1998 jax | 016 | 078 1182 15.2 8
1999 jax | 016 | 116 1636 14.1 6
2000 jax | 015 | 091 1213 13.3 8
2001 jax | 016 | 112 1373 12.3 8
2002 jax | 016 | 080 1027 12.8 7
2003 jax | 012 | 054 0805 14.9 4
2004 jax | 016 | 074 1172 15.8 6
2005 jax | 016 | 070 1023 14.6 6
TOTAL ...| 179 | 862 12287 14.3 67
... the only thing that hurts him is the lower career TD total (67).
Wasnt he into Cocaine ? Mabe he could co anchor with Irvin.
I can appreciate your affection for the guy, as he was obviously the home team hero. But his lack of TDs, the lack of ever dominating the game like the TO's or Owen's of the world, means he's an unlikely HoF candidate.
By the time he's elligible for the hall, there's going to be a heckuva lot of players who have passed him by in total yards and in receptions. He never won a ring, and he's got very low TD numbers (he's only 32nd all time now, and he'll likely fall out of the top 50).
He had a solid career, but a HoFer? I don't think so.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>jas-
I can appreciate your affection for the guy, as he was obviously the home team hero. But his lack of TDs, the lack of ever dominating the game like the TO's or Owen's of the world, means he's an unlikely HoF candidate.
By the time he's elligible for the hall, there's going to be a heckuva lot of players who have passed him by in total yards and in receptions. He never won a ring, and he's got very low TD numbers (he's only 32nd all time now, and he'll likely fall out of the top 50).
He had a solid career, but a HoFer? I don't think so. >>
I don't think he was Deion Sanders home town hero..Nor Champ Bailey, Jeff Fisher or Isaac Bruce...Their words speak for themselves..Get your nose out of the stat book and watch some highlights of his career...You remind me of most of the mainstream media...If the guy doesn't play in New York or Dallas or Pittsburgh on one of the glam teams then its like he played NCAA Division III or something...
He never took over a game? Are you serious?lol
-Voted to the Pro Bowl five straight years from 1997-2001 (started in 1998 and ’99)
-Was the third player in NFL history with 110 or more receptions in two different seasons
-Has 43 100- yard performances in 162 career games
-Scored touchdowns three different ways in one game in 1995 (receiving, on a kickoff return and on a blocked punt return)
-Led NFL in receiving in 1999 with 116 catches, which was the sixth-highest single-season total in NFL history
-Became only the second player in NFL history to lead the league in receiving the same year that his team led the league in rushing (only other player was San Francisco’s Billy Wilson in 1954)
-Had game of his career in 2000 at Baltimore, when he caught 15 passes for 291 yards and three touchdowns. Reception total is tied for seventh most in NFL history, and yardage total is the fifth highest
Your all over it dude, seriously...You must be a football historian, I can tell by your icon...lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Art Monk
Henry Ellard
Irving Fryar
<< <i>
-Voted to the Pro Bowl five straight years from 1997-2001 (started in 1998 and ’99)
-Was the third player in NFL history with 110 or more receptions in two different seasons
-Has 43 100- yard performances in 162 career games
-Scored touchdowns three different ways in one game in 1995 (receiving, on a kickoff return and on a blocked punt return)
-Led NFL in receiving in 1999 with 116 catches, which was the sixth-highest single-season total in NFL history
-Became only the second player in NFL history to lead the league in receiving the same year that his team led the league in rushing (only other player was San Francisco’s Billy Wilson in 1954)
-Had game of his career in 2000 at Baltimore, when he caught 15 passes for 291 yards and three touchdowns. Reception total is tied for seventh most in NFL history, and yardage total is the fifth highest
Your all over it dude, seriously...You must be a football historian, I can tell by your icon...lol >>
So because I have a baseball icon I can't possibly know about football? And you say stop reading stat books, but then you recite all these stats? Talk about hypocritical.
Look, he had a nice career. But he's not a HoFer in my eyes. How many TDs does this guy have? All those catches, and no TDs? Tells me he can't get the ball in the end zone. TO and Moss both, in far fewer games, SMOKE him in TDs. That's the game - scoring. Padding stats with yards and catches is just that - padding.
Most of the reporters I've heard (i.e. the VOTERS) have echoed the same feelings I have. He had a good career, just not a hall of fame one.
In this era of unprecendented offense, with the rules being changed to move the ball, he still couldn't get in the end zone. In 5 years, he'll likely be out of the top 20 or 25 in yards and catches. What then? Will you still feel as strongly?
Monk had a better career, led a team to a title, and he's still not in. Why do you think Smith is so overwhelmingly better?
Sirius Satellite Radio Presents
NFL POLL
Jimmy Smith retires with more receptions than any receiver in the Hall of Fame. Should Smith get in?
80%
Yes
20%
No
Total Votes: 36514
80% is probably where I would put his chances...
A couple of things in response to earlier posts:
Axtell, you haven't heard me say one disparaging thing about Art Monk. I think he is more than deserving and will eventually get in...Same for Michael Irvin and Andre Reed...
Jerry Rice, Tim Brown, Cris Carter...Then Jimmy...
If you take the best 6 seasons, which doesnt punish players for weak early or late career years, from all of these guys (including Ellard and Fryar) you will see that Jimmy measures up VERY comparably, if not better than many of these HOF worthy WRs...
He's not a first ballot guy, but he's not an Irving Fryar either..A guy who got big numbers from hanging around forever..Jimmy Smith did it in 179 career games and he will get his opportunity to be voted into the HOF...
Funny, when Tim Brown retired a couple of years ago, I dont remeber this much fan fare about if he is HOF worthy or not...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>He never won a ring, >>
he won with dallas in 1992 if i'm not mistaken.
<< <i>
NFL POLL
Jimmy Smith retires with more receptions than any receiver in the Hall of Fame. Should Smith get in?
80%
Yes
20%
No
Total Votes: 36514
>>
Look at the wording of that question. Of course people are going to vote yes to it. Why didn't they just say 'Is Jimmy Smith a Hall of Famer'?
In polling, it's all about how questions are worded.
<< <i>
<< <i>
NFL POLL
Jimmy Smith retires with more receptions than any receiver in the Hall of Fame. Should Smith get in?
80%
Yes
20%
No
Total Votes: 36514
>>
Look at the wording of that question. Of course people are going to vote yes to it. Why didn't they just say 'Is Jimmy Smith a Hall of Famer'?
In polling, it's all about how questions are worded. >>
So going by that logic Ax you cant do anything but agree that the poll given to major league players about being overrated is bogus too. They werent given a blank sheet of paper and told to write who they thought was the most overrated, they were given choices. If i remember correctly 9% of players voted for Jeter. Wouldnt that be a situation exactly like the one you just made a relatively good point about ?
-- Yogi Berra
You keep saying its all about TDs, but Im sorry that is incorrect..Its not ALL about TDs, its not ALL about championship rings..There are plenty of players already in the HOF that didnt have either of those things...
James Lofton scored 10 more TDs in 54 more career games..He also never won a ring...
Charlie Joiner scored the EXACT same number of TDs (65) in 60 more career games..He also never won a ring...
And that's just looking at the HOF WRs...
Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Andre Reed...ZERO rings between them...
Its all about the body of work, and how important the player was during his time in the league...Does Tim Brown get in over Jimmy Smith simply because he played long enough to socre 100 TDs? So we punish Smith for walking away on top and reward Tim Brown for hanging around 2 or 3 years to long???
Tell me how many WRs retired FOLLOWING a 1,000 yard season...
Jimmy will get his shot at the HOF...80% chance he makes it in one day. PERIOD.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
1) How much did The Jags reliance more on running hurt Smith's numbers? Looking at their yearly rank in passing attempts vs. running attempts, Jacksonville was almost always being higher in the league in rushing attempts. This has obvious implications for a WR.
2)His dominance factor. Smith's Best yearly ranks in Yards are 2,4,4,5,5,.
Moss,............. 2,2,3,3,5,9 in yards.
T. Ownes....... 3,4,8 in yards.
Tim Brown...... 2,4,5,5,8 in yards.
C. Carter........ 7,7,7,8,10
A. Reed............5,5,6
Bruce..............1,2,3,5
Harrison.........1,1,2,6,6,10
Rice.................Too many numbers to list
Yards are the currency of the game. The only player on that list that is higher in yards dominance is Harrison. Moss is a tad ahead.
Smith is better than all the rest.
NOW THE KEY!! EVERY PLAYER ON THAT LIST WAS ON A PASS ORIENTED TEAM! I would say that Smith's rank among his peers, despite being on a run first team, is quite impressive.
3) Has sustained excellence resulting in nice career totals, not a hanger on.
4) As for All-Time rankings, well that is more a result of the offensive rules era he plays in. He is ahead of all the older players by virtue of the rules, not necessarily being better. Check the dominance factor to even the playing field.
Lofton Yearly rank in yards 2,3,3,5,5,6,9,10.(career 18.3 yds per catch, very nice).
Monk yearly rank in yards 3,4,10.
He is ahead of Monk.
He doesn't rank with Lofton, but does over Monk. Lofton is the top of his era in the dominance factor.
4) His name! Cally me crazy but his name seems to hurt his recognition, not to mention where he played. Those hurt his actual Hall of Fame chances, but do not hurt his Hall of MERIT chances.
5) For a few reasons football stats are often skewed, and observation does play a big role in evaluation. His stats are skewed against him(could be much higher in a different situation). His observation analysis is quite high.
As I have stated before, you can't look at the guys final numbers and pretend to know the whole story. Even though his final numbers were GREAT, he got them on a RUNNING team...I team that if they got within the 10 yard line would pound it in with a RB..Most of Smith's 65 TDs were from BEYOND the 10 yard line. He was the exact opposite of say Cris Carter in HOW his TDs were scored.
--Became only the second player in NFL history to lead the league in receiving the same year that his team led the league in rushing (only other player was San Francisco’s Billy Wilson in 1954)--
That's huge in my opinion..The only player in MODERN history to lead the NFL in receiving yards while playing for the #1 rushing team.
The stats say he's good enough to be in the HOF, so just as Skinpinch pointed out, the issues that are hurting him is the non-glamerous name playing for a non-glamerous team. Other WRs are perceived to be better simply because they have the name recognition in the mass market.
Bottom line, watch the guy play, compare him to say Tim Brown or Art Monk or Chris Carter and he is right there...Equal to or better...Sorry, but that's HOF material to me..
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Putting together a set of 61 Fleer Basketball PSA 7 or better.
Trade references: T,Raf12,Coach Vinny,Iceman,McDee2,Lantz,JSA
<< <i>
Bottom line, watch the guy play, compare him to say Tim Brown or Art Monk or Chris Carter and he is right there...Equal to or better...Sorry, but that's HOF material to me.. >>
Why are you leaving out the truly great players of this generation like Moss, TO, Bruce, others?
Why do you want to compare him to players not in the hall?
He had a solid career, yes. But not a hall of fame one if you ask me.
T.O. is also HOF material down the road. But who knows when he runs his mouth and gets suspended again. You bring up Jimmy Smith and his off the field problems, then bring up T.O.? Too funny...
I already compared him to other HOF WRs. Lofton and Joiner were 2 of them...Not to mention, the other retired WRs who are closest to HOF induction (Monk, Reed and Irvin.)
Obviously, your opinion is your opinion and listening to reason doesn't seem to be your strong point. There aren't many players in the HOF that were elected unanimously or on their first ballot. So there will always be someone out there who doesn't believe a particular guy is HOF material. Jimmy will get 15 tries, and WILL get serious consideration. If the voters look at his body of work and how he compared with other players who played during his era, I personally think he gets in. Probably not first try which means there are doubters.
In fact, do you know how many WRs in the HISTORY of the NFL were elected on their first try?
Steve Largent
Paul Warfield
Lance Alworth
Raymond Berry
Don Hutson
THATS IT! Every other WR in HISTORY has had doubters becuase they had at least one year that they were NOT voted into the HOF for some reason. Some guys like McDonald (25 years), Swann(14 years), Dante Lavelli (13 years), Stallworth (10 years), Maynard (9 years) had to wait quite some time to get elected, but that doesn't make them any less of a HOFer. In is in.
So thanks for your opinion, but i'll stick to mine as well. Jimmy Smith is a future HOFer.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.