bonds and aaron similar treatment
theo934
Posts: 65
in Sports Talk
been reading many of the hate filled, death-threat filled, vile, ugly threads on this and the open forum about how bonds and his getting to 715, and I am reminded of the very similar hate, anger, frustration and racisim that hank aaron went through as he approached that same mark (and did for years afterwards too)
it is only different because the focus of the rage, hate, anger, and death threats were based soley on race in 1975, but now are based on race and the supposed drug use. There has not been this much anger and hate directed at pete rose or any other "known" cheater, but for some reason that big black player in san fran, brings out the beast in most people here, just like aaron did.
it is incredibly sad.
I get that you might not like him. I get that you are mad that he cheated (even if not actually caught). I get you might be jealous that he appears better than your favorite player by sheer numbers and accomplishments, but I just can't understand the hate, anger and death wishes.
That is just wrong, no matter who it is. save that emotion for osama bin laden, or saddam hussien, not a major league baseball player.
it is only different because the focus of the rage, hate, anger, and death threats were based soley on race in 1975, but now are based on race and the supposed drug use. There has not been this much anger and hate directed at pete rose or any other "known" cheater, but for some reason that big black player in san fran, brings out the beast in most people here, just like aaron did.
it is incredibly sad.
I get that you might not like him. I get that you are mad that he cheated (even if not actually caught). I get you might be jealous that he appears better than your favorite player by sheer numbers and accomplishments, but I just can't understand the hate, anger and death wishes.
That is just wrong, no matter who it is. save that emotion for osama bin laden, or saddam hussien, not a major league baseball player.
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Comments
While I would never accuse anyone of racism on this board, I have always wondered why people so badly want us to forgive Pete Rose and get him into the Hall, while this same majority so badly wants to keep Barry Bonds out of it. I've always said, I don't know Barry Bonds personally. Sure, he could use a good PR guy, but do I know him personally? No. He may be a jerk. He also might be the greatest dad on the planet. I don't know. So I can comment on what type of person he really is.
Everybody is saying Barry should come clean and admit he takes steroids. Hey, it took Pete Rose 15 years to admit he bet on baseball. Maybe Barry should have another 10 to 14 years to ponder if he is telling the truth too?
<< <i>I for one (I might be the only one) hope Bonds breaks Aarons record >>
make it 2. i hope for different reasons, just so it gives baseball a black eye.
bonds will play the race card..............bud selig will try to have him suspended.................i feel sorry for alex rodriguez if he comes close to the record.........he may get deported
<< <i>While I would never accuse anyone of racism on this board, I have always wondered why people so badly want us to forgive Pete Rose and get him into the Hall, while this same majority so badly wants to keep Barry Bonds out of it. I've always said, I don't know Barry Bonds personally. Sure, he could use a good PR guy, but do I know him personally? No. He may be a jerk. He also might be the greatest dad on the planet. I don't know. So I can comment on what type of person he really is.
Everybody is saying Barry should come clean and admit he takes steroids. Hey, it took Pete Rose 15 years to admit he bet on baseball. Maybe Barry should have another 10 to 14 years to ponder if he is telling the truth too? >>
Pete Rose is dispicable, and I hope he never gets in the HOF. What's worse, is the only reason he admitted betting on baseball was to selfishly promote his book get at least some shot of consideration -- meanwhile he totally rained on Eck's HOF induction. I think his latest actions were the last nail in the coffin for many, including myself.
I used to think Bonds was getting screwed, but the more snippits I hear from that book (like the time he broke a kids jaw in high school for no reason) he is really being revealed as a self-centered hateful person. He's seems to be so desperate now, he has to play the race card to get even a shred of sympathy.
<< <i>Am I missing something here? Has Bonds played the race card lately? >>
Yes he has. He recently made comments to the affect that all the crap he is getting is because of him being black. He questioned why nobody made a stink in 98 when it was McGwire and Sosa.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>
<< <i>Am I missing something here? Has Bonds played the race card lately? >>
Yes he has. He recently made comments to the affect that all the crap he is getting is because of him being black. He questioned why nobody made a stink in 98 when it was McGwire and Sosa. >>
Well, while it may not be true. I can see where he is coming from.
<< <i> but for some reason that big black player in san fran, brings out the beast in most people >>
yeah and we call him Bubba
With Bonds, he goes out of his way to piss off people. The serviceman who caught #713? Bonds smirks at him when he is asked to sign the ball...while this guy is part of our military fighting wars overseas so Bonds can make $18 million this year. His entire career has been like this. 'You reap what you sow', and Bonds is definitely sowing the seeds of being a complete and total ass his entire career.
Bonds is a better player than Aaron? Did I hear that right? Aaron not only holds the all time HR record, did so without steroids (which Bonds has admitted to taking), did so without diluted pitching to feast off of, and did so in a much more hostile time than Bonds has. In addition, Aaron holds the all time RBI record, never hit 50 or more HR in a season, and only once hit 3 HR in a game. He is the epitome of consistency, of a steady, dominating approach to the game.
Bonds has bulked up mysteriously, and has hit a large number of his career home runs after hitting age 35...odd, isn't it? Why people want to root for a self-admitted cheat is beyond me.
As far as Rose, sure he bet on baseball, but unlike Bonds, Rose's actions didn't directly influence games. Bonds' steroid use (and abuse) affected much more games than Rose's gambling ever did.
As far as Rose, sure he bet on baseball, but unlike Bonds, Rose's actions didn't directly influence games. Bonds' steroid use (and abuse) affected much more games than Rose's gambling ever did. >>
Betting on your own team while managing them doesn't "directly influence games"?
I respect your passion in your argument Ax and agree with what you are saying about Aaron, but I just can't defend Pete Rose. Can we honestly believe anything that man says?
<< <i> steroids (which Bonds has admitted to taking) >>
did I miss this? when did he "admit" taking steriods? please enlighten us all
<< <i>Rose's actions didn't directly influence games. Bonds' steroid use (and abuse) affected much more games than Rose's gambling ever did. >>
I agree with writer 11 on this one. rose gambled on his own team (and also against it) as a player and a manager. if you honestly feel there was no way he could "influence" those games, you are dumber than we already thought you were!!
<< <i>As far as Rose, sure he bet on baseball, but unlike Bonds, Rose's actions didn't directly influence games. >>
That's the biggest bunch of crap I've ever heard (next to your accusation that the WTC was imploded with explosives). Of course they had a direct influence on the game.
You get dumber with every post.
Please show me where Rose admitted to betting on his own team, and please show me where he admitted to gambling on his own team as a player. And please tell me how a manager can make that much of a difference in the outcome of a game.
It's much the same reason why Joe Torre didn't get many accolades for winning 1000 games with the yankees - an untrained monkey could have won 900 with that club.
<< <i>And please tell me how a manager can make that much of a difference in the outcome of a game. >>
change the line up or batting order
send in a pinch hitter or runner
pull a pitcher
play every game against the Mariners
You're way off base. A manager controls who is on the field. How many times have people questioned a manager's actions concerning player changes? Many times do we all wonder why he didn't pull the pitcher earlier and other moves. This could certainly give a manager a chance to cover some gambling bets.As for Bonds - the guy will get caught before the end of the 07 season, maybe even this year. MLB will release evidence supporting the claim that he juiced. My bet is they nab a group of players and pull their records. Don't think they can do anything but a major bloodletting in order to make up for their own mistakes.
Aaron's story is different. He was up against social factors, not a cheating scandal. If Bonds was not involved in the steroid scandal the world would love him. Aaron took heat for one reason, that being he is black. The man has four times the class of Bonds and still shows it.
I do not wish any bad luck on Bonds. I hope that he finds the answer to his problem of coming clean.
Now, Terrell Owens......
<< <i>And please tell me how a manager can make that much of a difference in the outcome of a game. >>
see grady little ..........boston/ny ...........pedro.......didn't change pitchers..................grady fired.........ny won
<< <i>
You're way off base. A manager controls who is on the field. How many times have people questioned a manager's actions concerning player changes? Many times do we all wonder why he didn't pull the pitcher earlier and other moves. This could certainly give a manager a chance to cover some gambling bets.
>>
And please show me where he made questionable moves as a manger that directly affected the outcome of his own games. I know I will be waiting a helluva long time, because people like YOU would prefer to make wild accusations with no basis in reality.
<< <i>As for Bonds - the guy will get caught before the end of the 07 season, maybe even this year. MLB will release evidence supporting the claim that he juiced. My bet is they nab a group of players and pull their records. Don't think they can do anything but a major bloodletting in order to make up for their own mistakes. >>
He's already been 'caught'. His grand jury testimony during the BALCO hearings said so. He admitted (he said 'unknowingly') to taking steroids. Why wasn't that enough for baseball to do something?
<< <i>
<< <i>
You're way off base. A manager controls who is on the field. How many times have people questioned a manager's actions concerning player changes? Many times do we all wonder why he didn't pull the pitcher earlier and other moves. This could certainly give a manager a chance to cover some gambling bets.
>>
And please show me where he made questionable moves as a manger that directly affected the outcome of his own games. I know I will be waiting a helluva long time, because people like YOU would prefer to make wild accusations with no basis in reality.
<< <i>As for Bonds - the guy will get caught before the end of the 07 season, maybe even this year. MLB will release evidence supporting the claim that he juiced. My bet is they nab a group of players and pull their records. Don't think they can do anything but a major bloodletting in order to make up for their own mistakes. >>
He's already been 'caught'. His grand jury testimony during the BALCO hearings said so. He admitted (he said 'unknowingly') to taking steroids. Why wasn't that enough for baseball to do something? >>
Didn't say anything about Rose. To borrow a phrase, "ya dope."Answered your rhetorical question. I could care less about Rose. Despite the fact that he played for the Phils I think he is a scumbag.
MLB has not yet released the findings of their investigation so Bonds has not yet been caught by the league. The grand jury testimony was leaked. Legally I'll bet that an employer cannot take action on testimony that is not supposed to be in the public domain.
Again to borrow a phrase "got it sparky?"
Second, if you 'couldn't care less', then why bring him up? He's a scumbag, yet all he did was help deliver the last world series title to the Phils. I would think you'd be a bit more appreciative.
And if Selig had any balls whatsoever, he'd have had Bonds come into his office, sit him down, and tell him he can either quit at 703, or he'd suspend him pending the outcome of the investigation, at which point you'll be banned.
<< <i>You mean 'you couldn't care less'? If you could care less, it means you care (talk about a dope!)
Second, if you 'couldn't care less', then why bring him up? He's a scumbag, yet all he did was help deliver the last world series title to the Phils. I would think you'd be a bit more appreciative.
And if Selig had any balls whatsoever, he'd have had Bonds come into his office, sit him down, and tell him he can either quit at 703, or he'd suspend him pending the outcome of the investigation, at which point you'll be banned. >>
I did not bring up Rose, nor did I provide any comment on Rose in my first post.
The man brought scandal to the game. The game that he swore was his life. His actions were intentional and he caused more probelms by not admitting it. Phils or no, he is a scumbag.
Give us more than the grammar criticism your mommy has used on you. Undoubtedly the cause of your never ending angst.
Seen any women in pink with princess plates lately?
<< <i>And if Selig had any balls whatsoever, he'd have had Bonds come into his office, sit him down, and tell him he can either quit at 703, or he'd suspend him pending the outcome of the investigation, at which point you'll be banned. >>
Which would be a violation of the CBA.
Its funny you're all about due process for your hero Pete Rose but when you mention your other hero Barry Bonds you have him suspended and banned before any investigation is completed.
You're a fraud!
Did I say suspended and banned before an investiagtion was completed? Perhaps you should get out your reading comprehension books again, sparky.
And the commissioner absolutely has the right to make decisions based on the best interest of the game. If that includes suspending a player for being a black eye on the game, then that is in the best interest of the game. Once the investigation is complete, and he's cleared, he'd be allowed. If he came up dirty, then he's out for good.
And exactly when did I talk about due process for Rose? I agree he should never be able to participate in MLB again, but he should absolutely be in the hall. Anyone saying otherwise is out and out wrong. He gambled, he made mistakes, but that does not take away from his numbers he put up on the field.
jrmac, your fascination with me is odd. I am sorry you hate confrontation. Your passive aggressive anger (i.e. your lame signature) has gotten the best of you once again! Maybe some therapy and/or strong medication will alleviate your anger.
<< <i>
<< <i>And if Selig had any balls whatsoever, he'd have had Bonds come into his office, sit him down, and tell him he can either quit at 703, or he'd suspend him pending the outcome of the investigation, at which point you'll be banned. >>
Which would be a violation of the CBA.
Its funny you're all about due process for your hero Pete Rose but when you mention your other hero Barry Bonds you have him suspended and banned before any investigation is completed.
You're a fraud! >>
Booyah!!!
Can't suspend Bonds on suspicion without strong evidence. Leaked grand jury testimony and a book or two won't cut it in the labor world. MLB will compile a strong case and then act. It will happen, but at the right time.
Rose gambled on baseball while still collecting a paycheck. End of story.
No Hall for You!!
and where is the equity?
McGuire did the juice, and we all know it based on his testimony to congress.
Sosa is a likely a steriod user, and DID have a corked bat
Palmerio got BUSTED on the juice (after swearing under oath he did not use!)
and do not forget
Jason Giambi admited flat out, under oath and in the press, that he used steriods and growth hormones for more than 3 years.
when is MLB suspending and/or banning them?
when is the national media going to constantly attack and negatively impact the lives of them?
when is Bud "head up my ass" Selig going to "investigate" them?
Give me a damn break.
we ALL know this is all about "taking Bonds down" in a planned witchhunt against him, and NOT about "cleaning out baseball" or they would go after ALL users and not just spend time worrying about what is said about Bonds in a tell-all book from his ex-lover (who is just out for the cash-in!)
<< <i>where is the equity?
McGuire did the juice, and we all know it based on his testimony to congress.
Sosa is a likely a steriod user, and DID have a corked bat
Palmerio got BUSTED on the juice (after swearing under oath he did not use!)
Jason Giambi admited flat out, under oath and in the press, that he used steriods and growth hormones for more than 3 years. >>
good point. what ever happened to giambi? nothing, right?
and I have not heard or read a single solitary person that wished HE was dead, or would quit or get banned. yet another example of the obvious racist angle to the bonds bashing!
McGwire dodged the steroid bullet and retired so nobody hassled him to the same effect as present players, Sosa is out of baseball, Palmeiro quit and will hide out for the rest of his life, Giambi came clean so he got respect for telling the truth, Sheffield got away with lying as did Bagwell, Biggio and quit a few others. Bonds gets tortured every day and still stays in the game regardless of what the fanfare is, you got to respect him for making his own choices and not letting ignorant people dictate his career choices.
<< <i>ticks me off big time when Bonds throws the race card out there. >>
you are obviously not only white, but clueless too.
I don't want Bonds to pass Aaron. Partially because he's a jerk, but mostly because he benefited from "cheating". I really don't want him to pass Ruth either, but that has nothing to do with Bonds being black. I would prefer that any player who cheats does not eclipse the records of players who did not. I would like to think that the guy who worked hard would stay above some pecker head with a needle. I think Babe Ruth may have been one of the best baseball players ever, but I have heard things about his character that left something to be desired. I haven't heard anything like that about Aaron, so I think Aaron is a better representative of baseball and it's most prestigious record. And yes, I am a white male.
Finally, if a guy like Giambi ever came close to Aarons number I think most baseball enthusiasts (yes, even the white people) would have steroid rants similar to the ones about Bonds. I would also hope that Giambi (the white guy who cheated) fell short of Aaron (the black guy who didn't). It's not always a race thing, but sometimes just a character thing.
<< <i>I am not the only one who thinks that the race card thing really is not neccesary. >>
and you can't name a single one of them that is not white..................................
clueless
Bonds = *
<< <i>whatever your opinion is, it is your bussiness and you are entitled to it but dont call me clueless when there are many out there who agree with what I have said. >>
I did not call you clueless for your opinion itself, I called you clueless for thinking about racism from the perspective of a white man.
If you think about it that way, then you are clueless. or if you actually think that it is not there all the time for all people of color to deal with, then you are clueless as well.
Blacks (and Hispanics more and more) deal with it every day. It is easy as an insulated white person to lose perpective on the real world that non-whites are forced to deal with (even rich and famous ones like bonds)
<< <i>The Bonds bashing in my opinion does not rest upon racism. I for one always back up Bonds and root for the guy, it goes back to his Pirate days when he was my favorite player way before the steroid issue, I will add that it ticks me off big time when Bonds throws the race card out there though.
McGwire dodged the steroid bullet and retired so nobody hassled him to the same effect as present players, Sosa is out of baseball, Palmeiro quit and will hide out for the rest of his life, Giambi came clean so he got respect for telling the truth, Sheffield got away with lying as did Bagwell, Biggio and quit a few others. Bonds gets tortured every day and still stays in the game regardless of what the fanfare is, you got to respect him for making his own choices and not letting ignorant people dictate his career choices. >>
Biggio on the juice? I've never heard mention of this. I think we have to watch the names we are throwing around here on this issue.
<< <i>I think we have to watch the names we are throwing around here on this issue. >>
sadly, most of these people just want to bring players they hate (or are jealous of) to fall or be ruined by baseless accusations, without any regard to whether or not the accusation is actually true.
just like in politics, the rumor is just enough to bring doubt and mindless believers that will ultimately destroy them even if they are not guilty.
<< <i>Bonds should be Banned? where is the due process?
and where is the equity?
McGuire did the juice, and we all know it based on his testimony to congress.
Sosa is a likely a steriod user, and DID have a corked bat
Palmerio got BUSTED on the juice (after swearing under oath he did not use!)
and do not forget
Jason Giambi admited flat out, under oath and in the press, that he used steriods and growth hormones for more than 3 years.
so
when is MLB suspending and/or banning them?
when is the national media going to constantly attack and negatively impact the lives of them?
when is Bud "head up my ass" Selig going to "investigate" them?
Give me a damn break.
we ALL know this is all about "taking Bonds down" in a planned witchhunt against him, and NOT about "cleaning out baseball" or they would go after ALL users and not just spend time worrying about what is said about Bonds in a tell-all book from his ex-lover (who is just out for the cash-in!) >>
BUMP