Alternatives to PayPal?

flaminio

Yep, it's another PayPal thread.

So, a lot of you guys hate PayPal. Fair enough. But what are the alternatives? Checks and money orders are a PITA, so much so that I won't even bother with your auction/store if those are your only options. A merchant credit card account? Good for the big players, less so for regular joes (and in all likelihood, more expensive than PayPal). Bidpay is the latest online payment mechanism to die, following a long line including c2it and Billpoint.

So, let's hear it. What online payment mechanism should I, an often buyer and sometimes seller, use?

mrearlygold

I have a regular merchant account with one of the largest processors in the country and I will not accept credit cards online for coins. I will accept small credit card orders for loupes, books, etc and I'll accept paypal for lesser priced coins up to $1500.00 but frankly I don't carry many in that price range.

I recently started selling on ebay just to see how it would go as a sort of lead generator. I sold 40,000.00 the first 2 months, several deals and I sweated out one transaction that I accepted a check on ( I held it 10 business days) The lesser priced items were paid via paypal and 2 coins sold received certified funds. There is no way I will do it any different and I'm still debating on whether or not the lead source is worth the aggravation.

I'm assuming you are refering to Ebay sales .

There seems to be an abundance of less than honorable sellers AND buyers on Ebay and I'm trying to avoid getting nailed by one of them. On the other hand there seems to be a lot of decent folk looking to do business with other decent folk and I'm trying to see if it's possible to connect with some of them. Thus far it's 70/30 with 70% being in the category of people I could care less if we ever do business again and 30% I reckon we will and hope we will although the numbers are so small right now it has me still in the wait and see position.

DHeath

Escrow works for expensive items.

BAJJERFAN

Well its obvious that PoorPal works good for some and that many have been fortunate thus far to have used it and have managed to remain unscathed. Others have not been so fortunate; in Ira's case it appears that the "unauthorized chargeback" was allowed with little or no investigative effort on the part of Amex. IMO there needs to be some adjustment of fees esp for balance to balance transactions AND some sort of dispute arbitration other than tough chit, we are PreyPal and we have the last word.

LALASD4

I was wondering if anyone have tried receiving a direct transfer from someone's bank account?

The bank always says that you can pay anyone from your bank account, you just need their name and address.

BAJJERFAN

Well I took a payment last nite that supposedly came from a checking account and it was instantly accepted just like a payment from an existing balance.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>The bank always says that you can pay anyone from your bank account, you just need their name and address. >>



I would imagine that you would also need a valid account number at a legit bank to pay the money to.

bhartman35

As long as the buyer has online bill payment, a direct transaction is possible. (I'm not sure if there's a way to do it through Ebay directly, but it can be stated in the terms of the auction.) I think this requires a bit of faith on your part, though. I bank at the Bank of America, and my bill payment system requires an account number. (You've got to tell them what account to put the money in), and an address. I'd be very cautious about giving this information to someone who won my auction on Ebay.

The other option that I see is an escrow service like iescrow. This is sort of a kludge, because iescrow accepts PayPal from the user, but they don't do anything with the money until the transaction goes through, so if things go bad, (e.g., the credit card company puts up a fuss) the money never goes into your account and the goods go back to you. (At least, that's how I think it works.) The very first transaction I did over Ebay was with iescrow (for Linux Red Hat 5, if I remember right).

Anyway, those are two alternatives. They've both got their own pitfalls, and it's been years since I've used iescrow, so I can't vouch for it.

flaminio

<< <i>I'd be very cautious about giving this information to someone who won my auction on Ebay. >>

You do realize that every person you send a check to gets your bank account number and a wealth of other personal information about you, right? A service like PayPal is probably more secure (to the buyer) than sending a check.

i-Escrow looks like a pretty good deal, but it does tack on an additional 1.5% to the price (paid by the buyer). I imagine that many honest buyers would be upset about that, but if the fee is explicitly detailed in the sale terms they shouldn't be. In such case, I would just reduce my bid by 1.5% to compensate. It does seem like a decent deal for sellers.

bhartman35

<< <i>

<< <i>I'd be very cautious about giving this information to someone who won my auction on Ebay. >>

You do realize that every person you send a check to gets your bank account number and a wealth of other personal information about you, right? A service like PayPal is probably more secure (to the buyer) than sending a check. >>



Naturally, anyone I send a check to would get that information. If it's a financial institution or a person I know I can track down easily (say, my housekeeper) that's one thing. Over Ebay, that's something different. But I'm not talking about sending money, I'm talking about receiving it. I acknowledge the necessity of someone seeing my account number if I write a check, but if they're sending money to me, that's something different (and one of the conveniences with PayPal).

It's been awhile since I've used iescrow, so I can't really be sure about it specifically, but 1.5% doesn't sound like a bad deal. You're always going to pay a premium for convenience. For the buyer, the convenience is that the seller doesn't get the money until they get the item. For the buyer, it offers (at least, from what I can tell) protection from fraud, because iescrow has to actually get the money before they authorize the seller to ship. The negative side (for both parties) is that the transaction takes longer (up to 3 days).

One thing I'm not sure about: A buyer using iescrow can use PayPal to pay them. iescrow says they don't charge a PayPal fee. So does iescrow just absorb the cost of that fee?

Conder101

You would have to talk to your bank, but it would seem to be that it shouldn't be too difficult to set up an account that would be able to accept electronic funds transfers from any source, but which would only be able to transfer funds OUT to just one specified account. That account would be another one that you have so that you can use the funds. That way you could post the account information for accepting funds, but the scammers couldn't use it to try and raid your account.

SamByrd

I agree with Flaminio which is scary, if there were a real alternative it would be great but paypal is still the best option most buyers and sellers, I too wont bid unless the seller will take paypal

morganbarber

I just won an auction where the seller seems to prefer www.auctioncheckout.com. I have never heard of it. I'm not sure if I will go that route. Does anyone have experience with them?

flaminio

<< <i>I just won an auction where the seller seems to prefer www.auctioncheckout.com. I have never heard of it. I'm not sure if I will go that route. Does anyone have experience with them? >>

No experience, but I checked out their pricing:

"Blue" -- Setup $48, Monthly $24, Transaction 10c

"Gold" -- Setup free, Monthly $29, Transaction 29c, "Qualified Discount" 2.19% (whatever that means)

For buyers, it's a no-brainer. It doesn't require any setup or account -- just run through their checkout procedure and use your credit card. Done deal.

For sellers, it looks like it could be worth it, if your selling volume justifies the monthly fees. I'm just a hobbyist seller, and rarely do my PayPal fees exceed $24 per month. But I'm sure there are many on this board that would benefit. They also have a "GoldShield" level which is even more expensive, but supposedly protects you against chargebacks.

Sounds like a reasonable service, and worth checking out if one's volume warrants it.

Tarmac

Reality check time.

Sure PP is a PITA but that's what the overwhelming majority of eBay users are used to using. Anything else and it's like 'groan, not another system to learn!'.

Let's face it, many of us will continue using PP despite the risks. Anaconda for a while suspended PP use after they froze his account a few years back. He returned to using them. You cannot ignore their pull, especially if a buyer has no cash and needs to play the float or payment plan.

Personally, I think money orders are not that much a PITA. I use them sometimes, my supermarket sells them for .25! Even Walmart has them for about a buck.

wayneherndon

eBay pretty much has a monopoly in its nitch.

PayPal pretty much has a monopoly in its nitch.

Maybe we should push for an antitrust action to break them up a la Ma Bell.

WH

flaminio

<< <i>Personally, I think money orders are not that much a PITA. >>

Get in car. Drive to bank. (Three speed bumps, six stop signs, eight traffic lights.) Find parking. Wait in line to withdraw cash. Get back in car. Drive to post office. (PO's got a parking lot, so less bother with the parking.) Wait in line to purchase MO (and a stamp). Get back in car. Drive home. (Eight traffic lights, six stop signs, three speed bumps, AAPIAPT.)

This process can easily take me an hour, depending on traffic and queue lengths. Maybe for all you wealthy men of leisure it's no big deal, but I got a job and a wife and two kids, and they place incredible demands on my time. An hour away from it all is a luxury I rarely enjoy, and when I do I don't want to be out running errands.

With PayPal (or any other equally convenient online payment mechanism) it's just click-click-click and I'm done. I can have the whole process complete in 30 seconds.

Trinketts

<< <i>

<< <i>Personally, I think money orders are not that much a PITA. >>

Get in car. Drive to bank. (Three speed bumps, six stop signs, eight traffic lights.) Find parking. Wait in line to withdraw cash. Get back in car. Drive to post office. (PO's got a parking lot, so less bother with the parking.) Wait in line to purchase MO (and a stamp). Get back in car. Drive home. (Eight traffic lights, six stop signs, three speed bumps, AAPIAPT.)

This process can easily take me an hour, depending on traffic and queue lengths. Maybe for all you wealthy men of leisure it's no big deal, but I got a job and a wife and two kids, and they place incredible demands on my time. An hour away from it all is a luxury I rarely enjoy, and when I do I don't want to be out running errands.

With PayPal (or any other equally convenient online payment mechanism) it's just click-click-click and I'm done. I can have the whole process complete in 30 seconds. >>




So you never run any other routine errands? Would it put off your whole day to swing into the bank/post office and get a money order or casheirs check while running another errand?

I wouldn't have a problem if I was like you only doing enough in sales to pay $24 in fees on a monthly basis. Come talk to me when you pay $300-$400 fees in a month on paypal and another $300-$400 on ebay.

bhartman35

<< <i>I wouldn't have a problem if I was like you only doing enough in sales to pay $24 in fees on a monthly basis. Come talk to me when you pay $300-$400 fees in a month on paypal and another $300-$400 on ebay. >>



What you've just described is the difference between being a hobbyist and having an Ebay-based business. Just like no one forces anyone to bid on non-PayPal auctions, no one forces anyone to put their items on Ebay, or to use PayPal when they do. When you don't use PayPal in an auction, you limit the number of people who will bid, just like if you had a brick-and-mortar store and didn't take credit cards. It's the cost of doing business.

flaminio

<< <i>So you never run any other routine errands? >>

Rarely.

<< <i>Would it put off your whole day to swing into the bank/post office and get a money order or casheirs check while running another errand? >>

If I waited around to trip-link it with another errand, I'd probably rack up the negs as sellers grew wearing of waiting weeks for their payments. Nope, if a seller expects to be paid promptly (and most do), and I am expected to honor that wish, then it almost always means a special trip just for that seller.

TwoSides2aCoin

there are alternatives to pay pal.

the choices are limited. Money Orders, Checks, Cash(if you aren't afraid to mail it) and hand delivery. Of course, you could process credit cards as vendors pay 3 percent usage, or thereabouts.

It costs money to make money and costs even more to sell it !

LALASD4

As long as the buyer has online bill payment, a direct transaction is possible. (I'm not sure if there's a way to do it through Ebay directly, but it can be stated in the terms of the auction.) I think this requires a bit of faith on your part, though. I bank at the Bank of America, and my bill payment system requires an account number. (You've got to tell them what account to put the money in), and an address. I'd be very cautious about giving this information to someone who won my auction on Ebay.


According to B of A, if you send a payment to someone, you just need their name and address, for account # you can just put in whatever, the bank will send a check out on your behave.

bhartman35

<< <i>According to B of A, if you send a payment to someone, you just need their name and address, for account # you can just put in whatever, the bank will send a check out on your behave. >>



Thanks for the information. Whenever I've used BillPay, I always saw the Acct # was mandatory, and I therefore thought it had to be filled in with something specific. I'm sort of wondering if B of A sending out a check sort of defeats the purpose, though. Isn't part of the point of an electronic payment the fact that the receiving party doesn't have to wait for the check to clear?

RBinTex

Neteller, Yahoo PayDirect, direct deposit into a national (i.e. like B of A) account.

flaminio

<< <i>Neteller, Yahoo PayDirect, direct deposit into a national (i.e. like B of A) account. >>

Neteller seems mostly set up to handle gambling sites. It seems impractical as a general purpose online payment service.

Yahoo Paydirect is dead, and has been for years now.

Direct Deposit requires the seller giving you their bank account information. I doubt many sellers will be comfortable with that.

It was mentioned that BofA (and other banks) will send a check to a seller on your behalf. I suppose that's not such a bad way to do it, although it does seem kind of low-tech.

rb345

Bank wite transfers usually take 1-23 hours to clear, and dont cost that much. They are rountinely used in real estate closings. The downside is that the payor may have to stand on line at a branch to get the transfer implemented, and the payee must provide rout-
ing instructions to its own account For large tranactions, the savings in Paypal fees can amount hundreds or thousands of dollars.

Which leaves two options, one short-term, the other longer. Offer incentives to big-ticket purchasers to wire transfer, e.g., offer
to split the Paypal fees in the form of a price reduction. The second is to find a lender, like Citibank or an e-bank, which is inter-
ested in developing a market for on-line authorized account debits, which Paypal uses as a course of funds.

The technology platforms are already there. Rent-Direct.com in NYC offers a program in which rent is aitomatically deducted from
tenants accounts and depositted to landlords accounts based on a pre-authorixation which is no different from Paypal's.

And one of NYC's leading management companies, Mark Greenberg Real Estate (516-944-5000), has just begun a program of
auomatically debitting the monthly maintenance of condo and coop apartment owners and transferring the funds into its account.

streeter

Bidpay has been bought and is trying to relaunch this summer according to their website. It sure would help for overseas transactions.