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So lemme get this straight........

longtimecollectorlongtimecollector Posts: 2,369 ✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Auction houses are at times paying the seller up to 107% of the hammer price....... But now some auction houses are charging the buyer 22.5% juice........ so the buyer figures his max......... which is the total of his "bid + the "juice", whether or not the juice is 10, 15, or 22.5%.......... and the seller ends up with the same $ (or close to it) no matter what the juice is.........

smoke & mirrors.........

smoke & mirrors.........
Cam-Slam 2-6-04
3 "DAMMIT BOYS"
4 "YOU SUCKS"
Numerous POTD (But NONE officially recognized)
Seated Halves are my specialty !
Seated Half set by date/mm COMPLETE !
Seated Half set by WB# - 289 down / 31 to go !!!!!
(1) "Smoebody smack him" from CornCobWipe !
IN MEMORY OF THE CUOF image

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    coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,328 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Which auction company charges 22% juice?

    siliconvalleycoins.com

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    RKKayRKKay Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭
    Who's charging 22.5%?image
    Rick Kay
    Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns

    <
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    longtimecollectorlongtimecollector Posts: 2,369 ✭✭
    22.5%...... Heritage
    Cam-Slam 2-6-04
    3 "DAMMIT BOYS"
    4 "YOU SUCKS"
    Numerous POTD (But NONE officially recognized)
    Seated Halves are my specialty !
    Seated Half set by date/mm COMPLETE !
    Seated Half set by WB# - 289 down / 31 to go !!!!!
    (1) "Smoebody smack him" from CornCobWipe !
    IN MEMORY OF THE CUOF image
  • Options
    RKKayRKKay Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭


    << <i>22.5%...... Heritage >>



    I understand that. They're hurting for $$.image
    Rick Kay
    Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns

    <
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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's only if you bid through eBay. It's still 15% if you bid through Heritage.
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
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    BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    Part of that fee goes to Ebay. Bid directly at Heritage's for less juice.
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    BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,790 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>That's only if you bid through eBay. It's still 15% if you bid through Heritage. >>



    Yeah, but it makes for a better story to not mention that part.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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    flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>smoke & mirrors......... >>

    What's your point? That auction houses are in business to make money?

    Ah, go back to China ya commie...
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    1985ChicagoBears1985ChicagoBears Posts: 164
    You had me scared there for a minute. I think I understand now. Heritage charges juice of 15% on their auctions but increases it to 22.5% when bidders come through ebay.

    The 107% intrigues me since I am talking with them about auctioning my Morgan Set. They have not yet given me a specific number other than it is negotiable. Reserves and buybacks are also part of negotiation.

    If anyone has dealt with Heritage recently, I would love to hear their comments/experiences.
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    BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    Gee flamino, you sure were a lot more friendly when you had pink hairimage-------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
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    flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Gee flamino, you sure were a lot more friendly when you had pink hairimage >>

    Heh. Yeah, something about the Ha Ha Guy brings out the beast in me. Maybe it's time for a new avatar...
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    ModernDollarNutModernDollarNut Posts: 886


    << <i>.

    If anyone has dealt with Heritage recently, I would love to hear their comments/experiences. >>



    Over the past 2 years, Heritage got good money for me on several occasions (example, $1,000 for an '81-S SBA PCGS MS66 I made from a $7 eBay SBA).

    BUT, negotiate carefully and have your questions answered. For example, if you stipulate a reserve and the highest bid is less than your reserve so your coin doesn't sell, you pay Heritage the juice on that lower bid, ie, you pay Heritage what they would have earned on the lower bid.

    The good news, in my experience, is you can work with Heritage to accomplish what is best for you BUT you have to be clear what that is and acieve a clear understanding with Heritage: otherwise their rules prevail. Rob
    Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....

    Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
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    au58au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The 107% intrigues me since I am talking with them about auctioning my Morgan Set. >>



    You just hit the nail on the head. Any auction house can make money. The hard part is getting the consignment. What seller wouldn't want 107%??
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    1985ChicagoBears1985ChicagoBears Posts: 164
    Thanks for the feedback and yes I have heard the same thing about buybacks, etc. with Heritage.

    I have dealt with B&M before (through a dealer I know) and we received 105% of hammer price and no buyback fees on coins that did not sell. Really, the best of both worlds. Plus no 5% selling fee.

    Still trying to figure out which way to go - Heritage, ANR or a dealer I know well.

    ???????
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    pontiacinfpontiacinf Posts: 8,915 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>22.5%...... Heritage >>



    I understand that. They're hurting for $$.image >>



    give that man a cigar
    image

    Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,249 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Heritage charges a lot....so i sell my stuff directly on ebay. Hence I cut out the middle man on my hoard of wheat pennies from 1956-1958.

    Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.

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    BlindedByEgoBlindedByEgo Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Heritage charges a lot....so i sell my stuff directly on ebay. Hence I cut out the middle man on my hoard of wheat pennies from 1956-1958. >>



    You bought one of those unsearched bags in the other thread too, huh?















































    image

    Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1

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    coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>... and the seller ends up with the same $ (or close to it) no matter what the juice is......... >>

    Not true at all. The higher the buyer's premium, the more (the large majority of) bidders will REDUCE the amount of their hammer bids, taking the buyer's premium into account. And, since the seller is paid based upon a certain percentage of the winning hammer bid, the less the seller gets/nets.

    For example:

    Scenario 1 - auction house charges a 10% buyer's premium and the seller gets 105% of hammer:
    High bidder is willing to pay $1100 maximum for a coin, so he bids $1000 hammer, taking the 10% buyer's premium into account. High bidder wins the lot for $1000 hammer and seller nets $1050 (105% of hammer).

    Scenario 2 - auction house charges a 20% buyer's premium and the seller gets 105% of hammer:
    High bidder is willing to pay $1100 maximum for a coin, so he bids (approximately) $917 hammer, taking the 20% buyer's premium into account. High bidder wins the lot for $917 hammer and seller nets (approximately) $962 (105% of hammer).

    The buyer's premium directly (negatively) impacts the seller, in the form of lower/reduced hammer prices and thus less net proceeds, based upon those lower hammer prices.
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A good proof Mark that the SELLER, and not the buyer, pays ALL the fees - buyer's fee and seller's fee. Anything else is smoke and mirrors. Why is this always a debate?

    In my limited experience it takes a great collection to get a 107% hammer deal. For that matter 103% or 105% of hammer with a standard 15% buyer's fee is strong money for smaller offerings.

    100% hammer = 87% of the gross price (100/115). 107% hammer with a 22.5% buyer's fee (that is fully backed out by the bidder) is 107/129.5 = 82.6% or less money than the first example. Sorry Charlie, only the best get selected for Starkist Tuna.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    1985ChicagoBears1985ChicagoBears Posts: 164
    With respect to Heritage's Signature Auctions, it would be interesting to know what % of the winning bids come from ebay. I suspect that it is a low %. If so, the 22.5% discussion is not all that meaningful.

    For that matter, it would be interesting to know how the winning bids break down between floor bidders and internet bidders (primarily those thru the Heritage website). I am sure the internet portion has been increasing but is it more than half?

    I think the skim/juice/commission issue is what it is. As Mark indicated, it really boils down to what the winning bid is and how much "activity" is there. The higher the winning bid, the better it is for the seller. Heritage does access a lot of people and gets the bidders to the table.

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