The selling of fake/counterfiet coins

Dukie101

So what is the deal here? You see and hear of so many counterfiets,why isn't there more being done to stop it. What is the Secret Service's involvement,or they more concerned with the currency? What are the grading companies doing about it. If they get a counterfiet, they just send it back, stating "not genuine". Should the grading services turn over the counterfiets to the Secret Service? What's ebay doing,do they report counterfiets to the authorities? What's the ANA doing about it? You see fakes at coin shows and when a seller/dealer is told it's fake, he'll pull it while you are there, and then latter put it back on the table for sale as legit. It appears that there is much apathy toward the fakes. I, for one am fed up with it.

OKbustchaser

So why should the Secret Service be doing anything? They have no responsibility over the sale of counterfiet coins (or currency for that matter) as long as no attempt at passing said counterfiet into commerce is made. Failure to disclose that a coin one sells is known to be a fake is fraud but even then it is up to the local authorities to prosecute not the SS to intervene.

As for what the grading services, Ebay, the ANA, etc. they are doing exactly what they should be doing...ie nothing. Something people seem to forget is that it is perfectly legal to sell counterfiets AS COUNTERFIETS. There is a large number of people (myself included) who find contemporary counterfiets interesting and quite collectable.

xphobe

<< <i>it is perfectly legal to sell counterfiets AS COUNTERFIETS. >>



That SHOULD be the case, but I don't think the Hobby Protection Act makes a distinction. It says ALL "imitation numismatic items" must be marked "COPY", which is a bummer. I would love to have a nice well-circulated fake 1796 half dollar for my type collection. Trying to see it from their point of view, I guess it would be a little risky if they were floating around. After I die someone might inadvertently sell it from my estate as genuine.

I once had a gold 2 escudo that ANA would not authenticate. It was probably a common middle-east counterfeit although made of gold. I took it to a dealer to sell for the bullion value, but he wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. He kept incanting "I don't deal with counterfeits". Wouldn't have surprised me if he had started backing up holding a crucifix in front of him. I wanted to shake him and yell "Look you moron, I *know* it's a fake, so do you, let's just deal with the gold content!" Finally he did, but I thought he was gonna have me exorcised.

OKbustchaser

The Hobby Protection Act only applies to fakes either created or imported into the country after 1972. It would have no bearing whatsoever on your contemporary fake 1796 half should you find one. (Also if you should PM me IMMEDIATELY!

xphobe

I read the law, but I don't see where it specifically grandfathers fakes made before 1972. Obviously there must be some reasonable cutoff date, as otherwise the 1804 restrike dollars would have to be stamped.

OKbustchaser

It wasn't necessary to grandfather them in. Prior to the passage of the act they were legal. Same with any other law. Simply outlawing something today does not make you guilty for something you did last week.

xphobe

So can I sell cocaine that was made in the 1890s?

We need to distinguish between Making and Selling.

Also, collecting firearms is another hobby of mine, and the laws regarding what types of firearms are allowed are very meticulous in stating the exact cutoff date of manufacture. For example, you can't buy an auto sear for your AR-15 if it was made after November 1981. That date is in the law. I thought there might be similar wording somewhere regarding "restrikes".

OKbustchaser

Yes, and that date is in the law specifically to mark a cutoff. Without that language the cutoff would have been the date the law became effective. As for selling cocaine made in the 1890's no, it isn't currently legal to sell it...but it is actually legal to posess it as long as you bought it prior to 1923 when it became illegal.

sundance79

I actually would like to collect counterfeit coins. The trouble is that when I ask a dealer if they have any, and they say they do, they refuse to sell it to me. They tell me it's against the law. One dealer showed me a large bag that they had but wouldn't sell me even one. One guy in a coin club I used to belong to has bought a bunch off eBay. They were all being sold as the real things, but at very low prices, so he would rightfully assume they were fakes. He would bid and win. If it turned out to be counterfeit (which was 99.9% of the time), he would complain to the seller, and the seller would refund his money and tell him to keep the coin

mr1931S

@sundance79 said:
I actually would like to collect counterfeit coins. The trouble is that when I ask a dealer if they have any, and they say they do, they refuse to sell it to me. They tell me it's against the law. One dealer showed me a large bag that they had but wouldn't sell me even one. One guy in a coin club I used to belong to has bought a bunch off eBay. They were all being sold as the real things, but at very low prices, so he would rightfully assume they were fakes. He would bid and win. If it turned out to be counterfeit (which was 99.9% of the time), he would complain to the seller, and the seller would refund his money and tell him to keep the coin

Keep the bogus coin? My policy for the past 60 years is to not support counterfeiting/altering of coins in any way, shape, or form by knowingly buying, selling or collecting them. Coin collectors should strive to assemble a collection of authentic, mint-produced coins not a collection of fakes. Isn't that what coin collecting is really all about?