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Additions to the All-Time QB/RB/WR Sets-Opinions Needed

JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
in PSA Set Registry Forum
Based on the debate we had here last week, I am soliciting opinions from the football collectors on which players, if any, they think are currently missing from the QB/RB/WR sets.

Below, I have listed a few players per position who at least warrant serious consideration on their inclusion to these sets. If there is a strong majority opinion for any of these guys to be added, I will send the request to PSA.

QB:
Tom Brady
Dutch Clark
Benny Freidman
Peyton Manning
Ace Parker

RB:
Frank Gifford
Leroy Kelly
Ollie Matson
Hugh McElhenney
Lenny Moore
Marion Motley
Bronco Nagurski
Ernie Nevers
Steve Van Buren

WR:
Dante Lavelli
Tommy McDonald
Bobby Mitchell
Pete Pihos
Charley Taylor

Thanks in advance for any input you have,
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.

Comments

  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,582 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd add Phil Simms (QB), Harold Jackson (WR) and Leroy Kelly (RB).

    My cases for Jackson and Kelly were already made in another post. As far as Simms goes, compare his stats with Stabler, who is already in the set:

    Simms
    164 Games 33,462 Yards 199 TDs 157 INT 1 Super Bowl MVP 2 Super Bowl Rings (Didn't play in the 2nd one due to injury)

    Stabler
    184 Games 27,938 Yards 194 TDs 222 INT

    Simms had nearly 5,000 more yards passing than Stabler in 20 fewer games and his TD to INT ratio is MUCH, MUCH better. Plus, Simms played his entire career for running teams, but still put up nice career numbers. He reminds me a lot of Troy Aikman, a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer. Simms still holds the record for highest completion % in the Super Bowl and deserves to be in the QB set.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Harold Jackson was already requested and a poll sent out by PSA. I am trying to see if there are any other players who warrant a request.

    I'd like to see at least 4-5 votes for a particular guy before I request that PSA send out a poll for his addition. Otherwise, such as in the case of Harold Jackson, its simply a waste of time..lol

    Jason

    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • GlynRParsonGlynRParson Posts: 364
    At this time I'd vote for Tom brady and Lenny Moore and possibly Peyton Manning
  • FabfrankFabfrank Posts: 2,312
    Jason- From your lists, the only players I would give consideration too would be M. Motley and S. Van Buren.
    Without going to lengthy debates, the other players either fall short or haven't played long enough yet to merit consideration.
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Frank,

    Is there anyone NOT listed that you believe should be included in one of these sets?

    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • thefootballcardstorethefootballcardstore Posts: 512 ✭✭
    I'd vote for Manning
    Jeremy
  • FabfrankFabfrank Posts: 2,312
    Is there anyone NOT listed that you believe should be included in one of these sets?
    I really haven't given it any deep thought. I went off your above list and leaned towards Motley and van Buren. Upon giving it a second glance, I would lean towards Brady (based on his Super Bowls) and would consider Manning if he won at least 1 Super Bowl.
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • AlanAllenAlanAllen Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭
    Steve Van Buren only, for RBs. Any more and you really start watering down the set... it's already been watered down some. Keep it to Van Buren (who should have been there from the start) and new 10,000 yard rushers.

    Joe
    No such details will spoil my plans...
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    I agree Joe,

    From the RBs, Van Buren is my only choice. I also think Pete Pihos should be added to the WR set, simply because he was so dominant during his era (6 time first team All-NFL selection). Unless 4 others feel the same about pihos, I still won't request his addition to the WR set.

    So far it seems Van Buren is the only candidate from all players listed to have at least 5 collectors (here plus another message board) agree that he should be added. I'm going to give it another day or so and see what additional responses we get. But as of right now, I plan on requesting Van Buren be added to the RBs set.

    Good to see you around again BTW..image

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    I vote for Pihos, Van Buren and Manning. Manning is a no brainer in my opinion. I'd even vote for having Stabler removed from the set, is he really one of the top 15 QB's of all time? I agree w/ shagrotn77 that Simms is more deserving than Stabler.

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,582 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd even vote for having Stabler removed from the set >>



    I second that. From what I was told, this was already voted on once(when Warner was booted from the set), and Stabler somehow survived the cut. However, there are quite a few more participants in the set now, and I think Stabler would experience a different fate after a re-vote. It seems the overwhelming majority of people now do not want him in the set, and rightfully so IMO.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    If someone requests his removal from the set, I will vote YES. He's not one of the top 26 QBs of all time, probably not even top 40.

    But for the record, I am against removing ANYONE from these Key Card sets. The care needs to be taken when adding players to ensure ONLY those truly worthy are added. Subtracting players and cards from existing sets has the potential to ruin these sets and makes the cards people purchase to fulfill them become a waste of money for the collector.

    When Kurt Warner was removed, it was SUCH a glaring mistake that it was almost an easy decision to have the card removed. Stabler has been a HOF Finalist, and was a semi-finalist as recent as this year. So to me it's not as AUTOMATIC as Warner that he deserves to come off.

    But if you feel strongly enough that he should be removed then request it. Just make sure no more Harold Jacksons or Phil Simms come down the pike as a set addition request. If we are going to keep the sets elite, and have AUTOMATIC numbers (10,000 yards rushing, 800 rec/12,000 yards receiving) then lets maintain that standard. This entire post was meant to weed out any potential additions of retired players..They cant get any better or worse than they already are...

    I requested Steve Van Buren and Marion Motley be added to the RB set. Based on support here as well as other message boards. there shouldn't be any other retired players being added...Should only be deserving active guys like Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, Randy Moss, or whoever becomes worthy from here on out...

    Of course it always comes down to a vote, and whatever the majority decides, it decides..I think Polling all collectors of the set is the best way to reach a consensus on any and all players.

    Jason

    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • FabfrankFabfrank Posts: 2,312
    I wasn't happy when Warner was removed and voted against it. If Stabler comes to a vote, I'd vote against it too. I can understand that maybe Warner should not have been in the set to begin with, but removing players after the fact because current opinion runs against them wreaks havoc with the value of the cards.
    We saw Jackson didn't have support through some healthy debate, maybe Simms might receive the votes maybe not. What happens in the next 5-10 years were we see new standards set by WR's. Do we eliminate the older Wr's whose stats might not measure up? I say no. As the game matures let those you become worthy of being in these sets be based on the periods that they played.
    I'm curious to see what happens with Motley and Van Buren after the voting. What cards will be used as their RC cards if they are voted in?
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Motley will be 1950 Bowman, Van Buren will be 1948 Leaf.

    Exactly my point on the removal of guys Frank. If you open that pandoras box, when does it end? Everytime we get a new collector who thinks the set needs to be changed we have to worry about cards being pulled that collecotrs already purchased for the set?

    Should be like the HOF, once you're in, you're in...There are guys there who, maybe after further review, many don;t think belong. but they aren't being VOTED OUT of the HOF...

    I think we should just suck it up with Stabler and understand that he is probably the weakest candidate on the set, but he should remain a member. And let that be a lesson to all of us to be very careful when requesting additons to the Key Card sets. The beauty of these sets is that they are expandable and allow the mixing of retired greats and current greats.

    We must ensure that ONLY the truly deserving are included from here on out.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • FabfrankFabfrank Posts: 2,312
    Another point is also making sure that once a card is chosen, it stays that way. There was the issue with D. Maynard being switched from his Topps Rc to the Fleer RC. I don't remember if there was a vote, but I wasn't happy when my set went from 100% to 95%image
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Same with the USFL cards being a late addition to the HOF RC set....Used to be NFL only cards....When we first formulated the set, the decision was to leave the USFL cards off because they weren't true rookie cards and akin to college cards or CFL cards...

    A couple of years later, here comes a poll/vote and the USFL cards are switched and added...

    There MUST be a poll to all set participants for ANY changes or additions to the sets..Except for automatic adds, like new HOFers or new 10,000 yard rushers or 800/12,000 WRs...

    Jason

    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
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