To begin with, I don't appreciate someone posting a ridiculous response to a posting on a for sale forum, as it is very impolite. I wouldn't do that to you and I expect the same courtesy. Second, there are less than 4,000 bags out there, and that IS rare for a modern mint product.
Sorry everyone for F117ASR's impolite posting and thanks for looking at my for sale item.......!
Trying to keep it civil here, I can see both sides of this argument. "Rare" is a subjective term, so you're free to use it if you want to, but over-use eventually makes the term meaningless and "ebay-ish".
On the Sheldon scale, "rare" is R-5 or above - that is, 75 pieces or less - and anything below R-5 would be described with the words "scarce" or "common".
But consider the 1955 DDO cent. I'm guessing a die can be used for several thousand strikes, so a 55 DDO is probably in the same magnitude of "rare" as your bag. People call them "rare" even though they might be only an R-1 or R-2 on the Sheldon scale, because they're famous and a lot of people want them. Rarity is relative to supply and demand.
The question is, how many people want your 1000 coin bag? If there are fewer than 4000 prospective buyers, then it isn't even scarce.
I have an unusual mint set in a flat pack that was sold at the mint gift shop. I don't imagine a whole lot of these were made, but nobody wants them, thus they are not "rare", and they aren't worth much.
I didn't post my bag to sell to have a forum discussion, as the forum is where this should be debated. Please respect that this is a for sale board and that I wouldn't start denigrating comments or discuss the merit of someone else's for sale items on their postings, so I expect the same respect from other forum members....
<< <i>Oh come on now, don't put rare in your title. Then it will sound like ebay here. Especially since it's so new. Good luck with you auction though >>
I concur with this statement! Ocean View Nickels are NOT RARE! Not even in 4,000-1,000 count bags.
In case some of you can't read, THIS IS NOT THE COIN FORUM. If you'd like I can wait until you guys post something for sale and then trash it for everyone to see- how does that sound?
BTW- It's the sealed bag that's rare not nickels themselves, but some of you can't seem to read or comprehend that- sheesh! 1960s pennies are very common, but an original mint bag is worth alot more than face. This is the same thing (for those that can seem to get this through their heads and insist on picking a fight here)......Some people I just don't get!
Listen, I was not looking to trash your thread, but you have to understand that putting the word "rare" in your thread title seems a little degrading. Why do I say this? I say this because the forums are not only a place where collectors can converge, but are a refuge for those getting away from the constant sales pitch of sellers on Ebay. The forum members here are intelligent. They do not need to be told something is rare. You should let them decide that for themselves. Now, your comment on the number of existing bags is perfectly acceptable, in fact even enlightening. But please sir, hold back the flashy sales pitch. Let us decide for ourselves.
As for this comment :
<< <i>BTW- It's the sealed bag that's rare not nickels themselves, but some of you can't seem to read or comprehend that- sheesh! 1960s pennies are very common, but an original mint bag is worth alot more than face. This is the same thing (for those that can seem to get this through their heads and insist on picking a fight here)......Some people I just don't get! >>
I felt that this was a very childish retort. To say that we can't understand your simple comment on the number of existing bags is just downright ludacrous. Here is a word of advice: "Choose your words carefully."
Beware of the flying monkeys! Aerospace Structures Engineer
BigBen, maybe you haven't been on the boards long enough, but it's not unusual to get comments, positive and/or negative, when something 'stands out' about a post. The most common examples are comments for those that post multiple BST threads, or bump them more than once a day.
I have to agree with everyone else about the use of the word rare. Don't get defensive, take it as good advice and learn from it. I always say, it's one thing if one person calls me an arse, but if 10 people are calling me an arse, then I better stop and think about it, I may well be an arse. Guess I'm #4 to get in line on using the word rare.
And, I do have a thread here on the BST. Feel free to comment; constructive criticism will be met with a positive response. And, any comments bump my thread, can't beat that!
I guess this is the protocol here, but from where I come from and how I was raised, I consider it impolite to denigrate someone's legitimate posting. Just because more than one member disagrees with me does not make it right. As a matter of fact, I've looked at other's postings to ebay and have bought some things from other forum members here, and I've seen this behavior on their postings as well. What does it make me think of the folks who are doing it? Not so highly.
Only in the case of fraud or deception does anyone have any moral highground to start posting negative remarks unless it's truly constructive criticism, which the first post was not, because the poster said quote "Ocean Nickels aren't rare", which meant he was talking out of his rear and didn't read the post. If you all are so confident in your maturity wouldn't the respectful and mature thing to do is send me a PM? Maturity is not my response (I haven't resorted to name calling, etc.) but the response of someone acting like a child here and posting a "nanny boo boo your "rare" comment is poo poo", which is essentially what was done here.
I stand my ground on this. If it is truly constructive criticism based on someone's superior knowledge of the subject, then fine, I might be able to use that info as well. But if someone who doesn't know much of the item I'm selling and likes to post denigrating comments because of a knee-jerk snobbish reaction simply because to them anything that's modern isn't rare, etc, is being inconsiderate.
<< <i>Only in the case of fraud or deception does anyone have any moral highground to start posting negative remarks unless it's truly constructive criticism, which the first post was not, because the poster said quote "Ocean Nickels aren't rare", which meant he was talking out of his rear and didn't read the post. If you all are so confident in your maturity wouldn't the respectful and mature thing to do is send me a PM? Maturity is not my response (I haven't resorted to name calling, etc.) but the response of someone acting like a child here and posting a "nanny boo boo your "rare" comment is poo poo", which is essentially what was done here.
Cheers,
BigBen >>
This "Talking out of his rear comment" must be aimed at me.
I just have one comment/question Bigben which is this: Why are you so pissed at everyone? Because a few guys came on and made a comment towards you post? Like I stated in my PM to you, your lucky some guys didn't come on here and totally dissect your selling abilities and flame away. I believe that F117ASR was correct in his response, and I just happen to agree with him.
Look at the bright side of things...your listing here has had more attention then the average post, and you don't have to TTT everyday.
Now you'll have to excuse me I have to go and bid on your nickels and get ready for work!
Frankly I think Big Ben is right. It is a sell forum and apparantly most of users here can tell the difference between rare and not rare--Frankly, if I had a bag out of 4,000 and who knows how many opened its brothers, I might call it rare. I might call it heavy, I might call it invigorating--who cares? he did not lie, no one was hurt, there is no blood--by the way, BigBen--please thank everyone for bumping your post right to the top--even with their less than helpful replies, your item is getting full exposure. Hope it sells, to the right person, who thinks rare is exactly what you think rare is.
LOL, I was thinking, you could take this arguement to the open forum and get opinions there--it would also help exposure--but thats just the salesman in me talking. By the way--how did you know only 4000 were sold?
BigBen has a temper everyone! Here is his last PM too me. Maybe BJ should see this!
"Now you've pissed me off royal. I'm not "lucky" you didn't do anything you arrogant egotistical a$$hole. If you ever talked Chit like this to me in person I'd knock your teeth down your throat. You have no goddamned right to "allow" yourself to flame ANYONE on this board as it is against the rules. You hide behind the computer which gives you courage but I guarantee you wouldn't talk Chit to me in person like this. "Flame" my a$$! Go to hell and consider yourself blocked a$$hole."
I had to replace some of the swear words due to not being able to post them here. Doesn't threatening another forum member get you kicked out of here? Just wondering!
Thank God a sane reply!!! I appreciate your comments as well I'm not going to respond any further to the posts above as I've said my harshest words in a PM to Stooge and there's no further reason to argue with them about this.
As to yor question about my numbers, I got them from both Numismatic News and Coin World in the JanuaryFebruaryMarch issues when they listed final sales total for 2005 Westward products. This is the FIRST thing I've ever sold that I called "rare" and some of the coin snobs around here decided to have a field day with it
Most of the folks around here are really great people but it's always a few that spoil the bunch. Though I get more exposure from the comments, alot of people could also be turned off after being "convinced" that my bag is "worthless" from the self-proclaimed experts if you know what I mean. I saw another fellow selling something her before and it was a good coin but some people trashed him and it appeared to have negatively affected his auction on ebay. This is why I didn't shrug this one off. As for why it even bothers me? I guess it's because I believe in acting like a gentleman, in that one shouldn't say anything here that they wouldn't say in person to someone that would offend someone for purely selfish reasons. I know that some are into coins because it's money, and money attracts alot of folks who are sometimes "ethically challenged", but it doesn't prevent me from defending against bad behavior. I believe that silence rewards bad behavior, so I said what I said and I'll let the rest of the folks decide if I'm a nut or not lol.
Stooge, you managed to post before I posted that I stated that I sent my harshest words to you in PRIVATE.
I responded to Stooge's PM that said I should consider myself "lucky" that he didn't "flame" me real bad in public because of my first response to his post.
I did say exactly what I said, and a threat is if I said I was coming after you, etc. which I did not do. So if you feel "threatened" then report it to the Collector's Forum Admin, as I'd be happy to defend myself. The more you post the more you let everyone know that you are not mature, so be my guest. Your post above is like a kid running to a teacher saying "I picked on that kid but he called me bad names back and now I want him punished""".
I apologize once again to everyone here not involved with this post for the way in that it's spiraled out of control and I apologize for not recognizing fast enough that some people are so immature that I shouldn't have ever bothered with them. It's like dealing with middle school students, which is sad because I have feeling that some of these folks are older than me.
Dude, take a chill pill. If instead of getting all defensive about it you had just ignored it, then this wouldn't have "spiraled out of control". One reason you've gotten so many responses (and regularly bumped to the top I might add) is that people are fascinated by how tweaked you seem to be about something so minor.
To use your middle school analogy, it's like the little kid who cries every time somebody slugs him on the arm. Does it make it right that the other kids slug him? No, but what do you bet he's gonna get slugged a lot more, by kids who just want to see him cry.
Life's too short; don't take stuff so seriously. Good luck with your sale! and ...
xphobe, I was hoping nobody else would keep this thing going. This started because I was unaware that rudeness on somebody's SELLING post (NOT coin forum post) was accepted around here and was to be completely ignored. There are no "people" that are coming here and looking down on me, just the 2 posters who started criticizing my FOR SALE post. If I posted something in any other area, then I accept criticism. This is not a post looking for "input" but I guess it's just the way it is with certain coin collectors. I don't need to be lectured about my middle school analogy as I'm quite aware of social behavior norms. If you want to lecture someone lecture the two guys who were rude in posting negative comments about my for sale item and description. As for my PM to Stooge, that was in response to his PM threat that I should feel "lucky" that he didn't flame me all over the message boards for responding to his post. THAT I don't and won't tolerate, hence my harsh response to him. Life goes on and copper keeps toning..........
I feel that this has gotten really dirty and really bad on EVERYONES account.
"I am personally throwing down the gauntlet and will publicly state that I am truly sorry for any and all inconvience I may have cause BigBen and this is the last thread that I will post on this or any other of his B.S.T posts now and in the future." "I have no desire to continue this discussion any further and please accept my sincere and most humble of apologies."
I agree with the overall sentiment in this thread - why are you so angry? If you are new. and seeing your post count I would assume as much, why not take the advice of those who have probably seen hundreds of 'rare' listings, instead of getting so fired up?
Comments
Aerospace Structures Engineer
Sorry everyone for F117ASR's impolite posting and thanks for looking at my for sale item.......!
Cheers,
BigBen
On the Sheldon scale, "rare" is R-5 or above - that is, 75 pieces or less - and anything below R-5 would be described with the words "scarce" or "common".
But consider the 1955 DDO cent. I'm guessing a die can be used for several thousand strikes, so a 55 DDO is probably in the same magnitude of "rare" as your bag. People call them "rare" even though they might be only an R-1 or R-2 on the Sheldon scale, because they're famous and a lot of people want them. Rarity is relative to supply and demand.
The question is, how many people want your 1000 coin bag? If there are fewer than 4000 prospective buyers, then it isn't even scarce.
I have an unusual mint set in a flat pack that was sold at the mint gift shop. I don't imagine a whole lot of these were made, but nobody wants them, thus they are not "rare", and they aren't worth much.
BigBen
<< <i>Oh come on now, don't put rare in your title. Then it will sound like ebay here. Especially since it's so new. Good luck with you auction though >>
I concur with this statement! Ocean View Nickels are NOT RARE! Not even in 4,000-1,000 count bags.
Happy selling,
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
BTW- It's the sealed bag that's rare not nickels themselves, but some of you can't seem to read or comprehend that- sheesh! 1960s pennies are very common, but an original mint bag is worth alot more than face. This is the same thing (for those that can seem to get this through their heads and insist on picking a fight here)......Some people I just don't get!
As for this comment :
<< <i>BTW- It's the sealed bag that's rare not nickels themselves, but some of you can't seem to read or comprehend that- sheesh! 1960s pennies are very common, but an original mint bag is worth alot more than face. This is the same thing (for those that can seem to get this through their heads and insist on picking a fight here)......Some people I just don't get! >>
I felt that this was a very childish retort. To say that we can't understand your simple comment on the number of existing bags is just downright ludacrous. Here is a word of advice:
"Choose your words carefully."
Aerospace Structures Engineer
positive and/or negative, when something 'stands out' about a post. The most common examples are
comments for those that post multiple BST threads, or bump them more than once a day.
I have to agree with everyone else about the use of the word rare. Don't get defensive, take it as
good advice and learn from it. I always say, it's one thing if one person calls me an arse, but if 10
people are calling me an arse, then I better stop and think about it, I may well be an arse. Guess
I'm #4 to get in line on using the word rare.
And, I do have a thread here on the BST. Feel free to comment; constructive criticism will be met
with a positive response. And, any comments bump my thread, can't beat that!
Only in the case of fraud or deception does anyone have any moral highground to start posting negative remarks unless it's truly constructive criticism, which the first post was not, because the poster said quote "Ocean Nickels aren't rare", which meant he was talking out of his rear and didn't read the post. If you all are so confident in your maturity wouldn't the respectful and mature thing to do is send me a PM? Maturity is not my response (I haven't resorted to name calling, etc.) but the response of someone acting like a child here and posting a "nanny boo boo your "rare" comment is poo poo", which is essentially what was done here.
I stand my ground on this. If it is truly constructive criticism based on someone's superior knowledge of the subject, then fine, I might be able to use that info as well. But if someone who doesn't know much of the item I'm selling and likes to post denigrating comments because of a knee-jerk snobbish reaction simply because to them anything that's modern isn't rare, etc, is being inconsiderate.
Cheers,
BigBen
<< <i>Only in the case of fraud or deception does anyone have any moral highground to start posting negative remarks unless it's truly constructive criticism, which the first post was not, because the poster said quote "Ocean Nickels aren't rare", which meant he was talking out of his rear and didn't read the post. If you all are so confident in your maturity wouldn't the respectful and mature thing to do is send me a PM? Maturity is not my response (I haven't resorted to name calling, etc.) but the response of someone acting like a child here and posting a "nanny boo boo your "rare" comment is poo poo", which is essentially what was done here.
Cheers,
BigBen >>
This "Talking out of his rear comment" must be aimed at me.
I just have one comment/question Bigben which is this: Why are you so pissed at everyone? Because a few guys came on and made a comment towards you post? Like I stated in my PM to you, your lucky some guys didn't come on here and totally dissect your selling abilities and flame away. I believe that F117ASR was correct in his response, and I just happen to agree with him.
Look at the bright side of things...your listing here has had more attention then the average post, and you don't have to TTT everyday.
Now you'll have to excuse me I have to go and bid on your nickels and get ready for work!
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
LOL, I was thinking, you could take this arguement to the open forum and get opinions there--it would also help exposure--but thats just the salesman in me talking. By the way--how did you know only 4000 were sold?
Good luck
Russ
"Now you've pissed me off royal. I'm not "lucky" you didn't do anything you arrogant egotistical a$$hole. If you ever talked Chit like this to me in person I'd knock your teeth down your throat. You have no goddamned right to "allow" yourself to flame ANYONE on this board as it is against the rules. You hide behind the computer which gives you courage but I guarantee you wouldn't talk Chit to me in person like this. "Flame" my a$$! Go to hell and consider yourself blocked a$$hole."
I had to replace some of the swear words due to not being able to post them here. Doesn't threatening another forum member get you kicked out of here? Just wondering!
Does this mean you won't sell me your Nickels?
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
with all the criticism you sure are getting a lot of hits
for your sale.
i also think the word rare is not very useful in this case,
but this is your post to sell something.
so hey, leave the man alone!
Thank God a sane reply!!! I appreciate your comments as well
As to yor question about my numbers, I got them from both Numismatic News and Coin World in the JanuaryFebruaryMarch issues when they listed final sales total for 2005 Westward products. This is the FIRST thing I've ever sold that I called "rare" and some of the coin snobs around here decided to have a field day with it
Most of the folks around here are really great people but it's always a few that spoil the bunch. Though I get more exposure from the comments, alot of people could also be turned off after being "convinced" that my bag is "worthless" from the self-proclaimed experts if you know what I mean. I saw another fellow selling something her before and it was a good coin but some people trashed him and it appeared to have negatively affected his auction on ebay. This is why I didn't shrug this one off. As for why it even bothers me? I guess it's because I believe in acting like a gentleman, in that one shouldn't say anything here that they wouldn't say in person to someone that would offend someone for purely selfish reasons. I know that some are into coins because it's money, and money attracts alot of folks who are sometimes "ethically challenged", but it doesn't prevent me from defending against bad behavior. I believe that silence rewards bad behavior, so I said what I said and I'll let the rest of the folks decide if I'm a nut or not lol.
Cheers Russ,
BigBen
I responded to Stooge's PM that said I should consider myself "lucky" that he didn't "flame" me real bad in public because of my first response to his post.
I did say exactly what I said, and a threat is if I said I was coming after you, etc. which I did not do. So if you feel "threatened" then report it to the Collector's Forum Admin, as I'd be happy to defend myself. The more you post the more you let everyone know that you are not mature, so be my guest. Your post above is like a kid running to a teacher saying "I picked on that kid but he called me bad names back and now I want him punished""".
I apologize once again to everyone here not involved with this post for the way in that it's spiraled out of control and I apologize for not recognizing fast enough that some people are so immature that I shouldn't have ever bothered with them. It's like dealing with middle school students, which is sad because I have feeling that some of these folks are older than me.
Cheers,
BigBen
To use your middle school analogy, it's like the little kid who cries every time somebody slugs him on the arm. Does it make it right that the other kids slug him? No, but what do you bet he's gonna get slugged a lot more, by kids who just want to see him cry.
Life's too short; don't take stuff so seriously. Good luck with your sale! and ...
BigBen
I feel that this has gotten really dirty and really bad on EVERYONES account.
"I am personally throwing down the gauntlet and will publicly state that I am truly sorry for any and all inconvience I may have cause BigBen and this is the last thread that I will post on this or any other of his B.S.T posts now and in the future." "I have no desire to continue this discussion any further and please accept my sincere and most humble of apologies."
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
I agree with the overall sentiment in this thread - why are you so angry? If you are new. and seeing your post count I would assume as much, why not take the advice of those who have probably seen hundreds of 'rare' listings, instead of getting so fired up?
Just a suggestion...do with it what you will.
Cheers!
BigBen
Aerospace Structures Engineer
Ray