Guys are nuts for paying vending prices on Mastro Auction

chaz43

I was just looking at the vending prices for the Fritsch collection on the Mastro auction site and the prices are crazy. And the bidding is not done. Don't these guys realize that this is the tip of the iceberg with this stuff and alot more of it is going to be coming out in succeeding auctions? Unless they will be rushing to get them graded and get their money As the pop reports increase, the price will come down. And don't tell me that alot of it won't be opened becasue it will. The only thing I can think of is that the quality of the vending is not as good for those years and it is a crap shoot. But it does not take many PSA 9's and 8's to kill the price. I am staying away. What do you all think? chaz

RonBurgundy

I think you are right.

jmbkb4

Chaz, good point.

Supply & Demand -- right now, the supply is low but can only increase!

chaz43

I might want to keep a running record of these prices now and maybe 2 or 3 years from now. I think it would be interesting. chaz

mikeschmidt

<< <i>I might want to keep a running record of these prices now and maybe 2 or 3 years from now. I think it would be interesting. chaz >>



I don't think it is going to go down [significantly]. Understand that there is a large core of collectors that collect unopened and keep items like this unopened. There is simply not significantly vending from the '50s and '60s around. And every time something does get opened - the available supply for everyone else drops.

All that said, Mastro typically realizes crazy prices on lots of items.

But to just counteract your main premise, Chaz, the population on all 1970s baseball over the past 3-5 years has quadrupled, and increase basically exponentially. But the unopened has only increased in value over that same period.

~ms

chaz43

It would also be interesting to ask Larry Fritsch : Hey Larry we want to know the exact number of vending, wax , cello cases you are sitting on from the 50's (not as much but who really knows?), 60's and 70's. Give it up Larry, tell us exactly what you have in that warehouse of yours in Wisconsin, all the warehouses spread around in that state, what you got in the safety deposit boxes, all the safes you spread around in you and your son's house and total up everything ( we mean every single card) that you have purchased from all the private collections. I know it would totally blow all of us away....... chaz

onlyanumber

I nearly choked when I saw the price on the 71 1st series baseball. You'd have to get at least one perfect Munson card in that box to even break even. I have a feeling there are some bidders out there figuring they're getting every card in the box graded...

Makes me wonder how many more of these boxes Fritsch is sitting on...

chaz43

<< <i>

<< <i>I might want to keep a running record of these prices now and maybe 2 or 3 years from now. I think it would be interesting. chaz >>



I don't think it is going to go down [significantly]. Understand that there is a large core of collectors that collect unopened and keep items like this unopened. There is simply not significantly vending from the '50s and '60s around. And every time something does get opened - the available supply for everyone else drops.

All that said, Mastro typically realizes crazy prices on lots of items.

But to just counteract your main premise, Chaz, the population on all 1970s baseball over the past 3-5 years has quadrupled, and increase basically exponentially. But the unopened has only increased in value over that same period.

~ms >>




Good points MS - so it really does pay to keep the stuff unopended. But that is very difficult. I was thinking of buying 2 vending boxes for myself and keeping one and then opening the other.....it's like going back in time.....like a time machine. But the price knocked me right out of the running. chaz

ColleSystem

Chaz:

Delight in the fact that your insight will allow you to be able to potentially pick up some of this material in phases 3 or 4 for a lot cheaper (if in fact the rumor on the quantities is true). At that point, you may also have some more insight as to the condition of the cards inside.

-Scott

chaz43

True Scott. But unless I knew exactly (and I never will) how much Larry has, I will never know for sure that I could have gotten in on it even later and saved even more money as the price comes down but that is the risk you take. chaz

chaz43

Just think... if I were Larry, I'd get rid of my crappy stuff first mostly and mix in some good stuff GAI 8.5 and GAI 9's and keep the real good condition stuff for later and release it as a "mix", which is exactly what he is doing. chaz

bsfastball

I believe the 1954 wax box in mastro went for much less than the previous two that were unearthed in the last auction. Can anyone confirm this?

CollectorChris

I think that most of the people who pay for the so-called "unopened" vending boxes are going to be very disappointed. How can you trust the "Case Fresh" description? How can a vending box be "Case Fresh" when the box has one or more of the following characteristics: writing, discoloration, worn corners and edges, and droops in the middle of the edge where one would insert their fingers to lift the top flap of the box. How can we trust that these boxes haven't been cherry picked for the most valuable cards? These boxes weren't sealed like wax packs. It's a fool's game.

Collector Chris

WinPitcher

How can we trust that these boxes haven't been cherry picked for the most valuable cards?

Chris I agree with you but............one can tell if vending has been tampered with. the sequence of the cards can be seen right away. if cards were removed the sequence will show it.

bt sequence I mean the diferent shades one sees when a box of vending is opened for the first time.

Steve

poppie

<< <i>It would also be interesting to ask Larry Fritsch : Hey Larry we want to know the exact number of vending, wax , cello cases you are sitting on from the 50's (not as much but who really knows?), 60's and 70's. Give it up Larry, tell us exactly what you have in that warehouse of yours in Wisconsin, all the warehouses spread around in that state, what you got in the safety deposit boxes, all the safes you spread around in you and your son's house and total up everything ( we mean every single card) that you have purchased from all the private collections. I know it would totally blow all of us away....... cha >>

I had a tour guided by both Larry and Pork Chop about ten years ago, and feel a need to go back SOON !

chaz43

<< <i>How can we trust that these boxes haven't been cherry picked for the most valuable cards?

Chris I agree with you but............one can tell if vending has been tampered with. the sequence of the cards can be seen right away. if cards were removed the sequence will show it.

bt sequence I mean the diferent shades one sees when a box of vending is opened for the first time.

Steve >>



Stevo is right on that one. You can see the sequence with vending. I just wonder about 71' baseball with the black borders and how they will be after sitting in there for 35 years. They chip so easily so I have always stayed away from that year along with the 62's . Although the 2nd highest rated set just sold for over 60K plus juice. Very tough set again because of the chipping. chaz

chaz43

<< <i>

<< <i>It would also be interesting to ask Larry Fritsch : Hey Larry we want to know the exact number of vending, wax , cello cases you are sitting on from the 50's (not as much but who really knows?), 60's and 70's. Give it up Larry, tell us exactly what you have in that warehouse of yours in Wisconsin, all the warehouses spread around in that state, what you got in the safety deposit boxes, all the safes you spread around in you and your son's house and total up everything ( we mean every single card) that you have purchased from all the private collections. I know it would totally blow all of us away....... cha >>

I had a tour guided by both Larry and Pork Chop about ten years ago, and feel a need to go back SOON ! >>




Can I go????? chaz

SDavid

You can see if cards were removed from vending, but there's no way to know how the box was handled unless you can personally inspect it. Unfortunately, there's not much protection there for the cards if that box was dropped at some point during the last 30+ years. I can't see paying that much for vending boxes sight unseen.

I would want to at least pull up the lid and see if the corners are dinged before shelling out that kind of cash. But, obviously, if you're buying it with no intention of opening it, then that's not as important, although the box's condition may affect your ability to sell it at some point.

edited to add: I've opened vending cases with several boxes where most of the cards were in terrible condition, so even if they're case fresh, you still have to know how the case was handled.

GlynRParson

If they get the cards graded and turned quickly some of it may do well. other boxes will get crushed it is definetly a gamble. Heck look at how great Joe Delgrippo did with all that 1968-1969 vending in 1999-2000 tons of 10s lots of great cards. he also had some 1972 football vending (lo #'s0 where most of the PSA 10 LC greenwood rookies came from. The prices were supressed for a year or so but anyone who bought 10s from Joe back then could clean up right now. the market is deeper then many suspect and the best material will gradually get salted away. I do feel however this may adversely effect the levels of many PSA 8 cards for a long time. The 10s will still be great and the 9s will probably hold up well in the long run.

GlynRParson

I am referring mainly to the 1960s issues and 1971. The 1970s have already started to see a depression in single prices on many items and the high end 1950s stuff will always be gold.