Why You Should Only Buy Racks/Cellos by the Case

SDavid

I've seen this discussed in old threads, so I know that this is old news to many of you, but I'm continuously surprised at the number of adults who do not realize how easy it is to "search" a rack/cello pack/box just by assembling a list of the collation patterns.

rack/cello collation patters

I received 3 rack cases this past x-mas - topps, fleer, and donruss - and I was amazed at how few packs I had to open before determining the collation patterns that covered most of the packs. I basically just recorded everything in an excel spreadsheet, and, in no time, I could determine what was in each pack just by the cards that were on the top/bottom. And no I didn't sell the unopened "dead" packs; I just wanted to see how easy it was. There was some variation, but not much.

I actually found this site after purchasing a dead 84 Topps rack box from Kruk cards. If you're ever tempted to buy a rack/cello box from a big "reputable" dealer, I strongly suggest asking them about the contents. If they say they don't have a list of the collation patterns, especially for 80's issues, they're simply lying to you. It took me very little time to assemble a collation list for 87 topps, 89 fleer and donruss that was accurate over 90% of the time, so I know that dealers who have done this their whole lives have certainly taken the time to make these lists or purchase them.

When you purchase a rack/cello box, I'd say the chances are high that *someone* knowledgeable has searched it - not just for the key cards, but for well centered versions of the key cards. I mean, an 84 Topps rose that's 70/30 is firewood, but if it's in a sequence that's 50/50, it's a different story. If nothing else, always get a strong discount over a box's case value, just like legendary cuts boxes on ebay sell for a discount because there's a high risk factor that the case card was pulled.

Boopotts

Same goes for some 80's wax. I can tell you the 14 cards that procede the Griffey, Johnson and Schilling RC's in 1989 Donruss wax, so if you see one of those cards through the wax on the back you'll know if it's got one of these RC's. It's actually only about 70% effective, since you get a case sometimes that has no rhyme or reason to the collation, but it's reliable enough such that I wouldn't buy a case of it from a dealer unless it was sealed.

larryallen73

That's one reason why I prefer buying cheap boxes (like '81's) as not as likely to be cherry picked as say 1980 (Henderson) or older cards with more high dollar cards.

ldferg

i agree 100% on sealed cases...even from reputable dealers.

julen23

there are always sellers on e-bay selling 80's rack packs, up to 40-60, per auction.

this cards are polluted w/ juan samuels and his friends galore.

sealed or 81 topps is the only way to go!

Julen
TGIF

ldferg

i purchased an 81t baseball rack box from a reputable dealer almost one year ago. the rack packs had players names written on the card header (i.e. ryan, henderson, etc...). i opened 6 rack packs (3 before noticing). the seller refunded no questions asked.

i think "sealed factory" cases are the only way to go if you can find what you are looking for.

spazzy

I have been saying that for years that the only way to go is to buy factory sealed rack and cello cases. There is just too much temptation for anyone to sell a single rack box or cello box without taking a peak. In a previous thread i have spoke that even some of the bigger dealers that I bought rack or cello boxes just did not have as good results as buying the rack box or cello box sealed. Remember when someone says unopened or unsearched does not always mean untouched or peaked at. Even today, a well named dealer has single rack packs with major or minor stars for 1978 topps and is also selling a 1978 single rack box. It just makes one leary. I believe that the dealer is legit but to buy a 1978 rack box for over 1000.00 and not sealed seems to be a big gamble.

ldferg

spazzy,
it does make you leary when you see racks with stars for sale and then a rack box of like packs for sale from the same seller.

jmbkb4

<< <i>I've seen this discussed in old threads, so I know that this is old news to many of you, but I'm continuously surprised at the number of adults who do not realize how easy it is to "search" a rack/cello pack/box just by assembling a list of the collation patterns.

rack/cello collation patters

I received 3 rack cases this past x-mas - topps, fleer, and donruss - and I was amazed at how few packs I had to open before determining the collation patterns that covered most of the packs. I basically just recorded everything in an excel spreadsheet, and, in no time, I could determine what was in each pack just by the cards that were on the top/bottom. And no I didn't sell the unopened "dead" packs; I just wanted to see how easy it was. There was some variation, but not much.

I actually found this site after purchasing a dead 84 Topps rack box from Kruk cards. If you're ever tempted to buy a rack/cello box from a big "reputable" dealer, I strongly suggest asking them about the contents. If they say they don't have a list of the collation patterns, especially for 80's issues, they're simply lying to you. It took me very little time to assemble a collation list for 87 topps, 89 fleer and donruss that was accurate over 90% of the time, so I know that dealers who have done this their whole lives have certainly taken the time to make these lists or purchase them.

When you purchase a rack/cello box, I'd say the chances are high that *someone* knowledgeable has searched it - not just for the key cards, but for well centered versions of the key cards. I mean, an 84 Topps rose that's 70/30 is firewood, but if it's in a sequence that's 50/50, it's a different story. If nothing else, always get a strong discount over a box's case value, just like legendary cuts boxes on ebay sell for a discount because there's a high risk factor that the case card was pulled. >>


Very thoughtful. Thanks for sharing this!!!!

SDavid

Even more painful could be shelling out around $500 for an unsealed rack box of 85 Topps football. Someone could switch out just two or three packs, and leave a box with contents valued at around $10 when opened. Ouch.

BBCE

Hello!


Of course racks and cellos have patterns. But to think that we I need some Griffey rookies or Randy Johnson rookies, or centered 1984 Topps Pete Rose cards is beyond laughable. What the heck are Griffey rookies worth that would ruin my reputaion business?? I just can't believe some of the things I hear sometimes.


Thanks all! Steve

baseballfanatic

Thats a shame. Other than one inuendo, every board member on here has had nothing but praise for your product and business....

BBCE

Baseball fanatic,
You are correct. I hear nothing but good praises from most everyone on this board. I guess I just over-reacted about the fact that I'm good friends with Roger, but shouldn't( I guess).. I get too senstive sometimes as I try my hardest to do whatever it takes. Just my over-reaction. Thanks, Steve

SDavid

Once again, I buy boxes/cases for price A and then sell them for price B, only trying to make enough profit that is fair. I could care less what is inside and what I could be "losing" by not picking them.

The person buying the boxes probably cares quite a bit. I don't really think Kruk Cards (also a million dollar operation) searched the 84 Topps rack box I bought from them either, but somebody did, and I still ended up with firewood. Most (not all) of the cello/rack box breaks posted on these boards from any dealer have been unimpressive. There's a reason why collectors everywhere have more success buying sealed cases, but I guess that doesn't mean anything?

Also, of course racks and cellos have patterns. But to think that we I need some Griffey rookies or Randy Johnson rookies, or centered 1984 Topps Pete Rose cards is beyond laughable. What the heck are Griffey rookies worth that would ruin my reputaion business?? I just can't believe some of the things I hear sometimes.

For a millionare dealer, probably nothing, but I doubt most of these cello/rack boxes are bought from millionares. Again, if a box is searched, who cares by whom??? My original post said the odds are high that *someone* has searched it if it's been around this long. A lot of these boxes were searched at retail stores/shops.

Again, collectors can purchase all the rack/cello boxes they want and compare their results with sealed cases. I doubt there'll be much of a comparison regardless of who they buy them from.

jmbkb4

<< <i>Baseball fanatic,
You are correct. I hear nothing but good praises from most everyone on this board. I guess I just over-reacted about the fact that I'm good friends with Roger, but shouldn't( I guess).. I get too senstive sometimes as I try my hardest to do whatever it takes. Just my over-reaction. Thanks, Steve >>


Steve, you're awesome. You've worked hard to earn your stellar reputation, and it's certainly deserved.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

I buy 89 Fleer rack cases from time to time to look for Ripken FF versions needed for my master set. I will crack one box to find what version is in the case. I then sell the other 2 boxes as I so far have not found what I need/want. I mention I look at racks for Bill Ripkens on top but do not search packs using patterns. Just by mentioning I know this I usually only get a fraction of what I should for the box. I agree on only sealed cases but even with the seller stating sealed I always ask seller for pic of top/bottom seal. I have purchased many sealed cases in the past that had the Fleer factory tape broken and covered with clear tape and seller listed as factory sealed. Also on 89 Fleer Baseball the cello cases are scary as the factory used regular clear tape that someone can easily remove and replace.
The collation for 89 Fleer is pretty consistent minus the griffey jr being found with 2 patterns and the Bill Ripken found in 2 patterns and in a few legit sealed cases no Billys at all. I guess this is when they pulled cards and no repalcemnent was made yet.

larryallen73

Of course racks and cellos have patterns. But to think that we I need some Griffey rookies or Randy Johnson rookies, or centered 1984 Topps Pete Rose cards is beyond laughable. What the heck are Griffey rookies worth that would ruin my reputaion business?? I just can't believe some of the things I hear sometimes.

Steve- Nobody would EVER suggest that YOU would search your packs and that's why I buy from you. Your reputation and your great customer service put you at the top! However, you and most other dealers have not had all your packs since they were new, are not always sealed cases, etc.... Yes, you know your product and can look for clues that I wouldn't see to tell if packs have been tampered/searched but even buying from a reputable dealer is not 100%. Other sellers, small sellers on the Bay for example, search their packs FOR SURE in my opinion.

FYS

spazzy

Well said larryallen73. I just wish that if a single rack or cello box is for sale, a dealer would give as much information how it was acquired. As an example was it pulled from a sealed case from them or acquired second hand? With that said, i have never had much luck with any vintage cello or rack single pack openings from anyone(. mainly 1970-1975 ) I agree that so much is searched way before that pack was graded. I also realize that opening any pack is a gamble at that price too. I have shifted to buying graded racks and cellos with stars on top or bottom. You pay a little more but you have something and you could open it too. I think Steve is great too and trust his business..Stuff is getting so darn expensive these days and if we like unopened we will pay the price for what we collect...we want it real and original.

julen23

good examples of searched stuff..... looking for my juan samuel cards!!!

55 1985 rack packs... no way!!

Julen

baseballfanatic

<< <i>good examples of searched stuff..... looking for my juan samuel cards!!!

55 1985 rack packs... no way!!

Julen >>




Strange that the words "factory sealed", "unopened", and "untouched" are used but "unsearched" fails to make the cut......