Do PSA card sellers have a responsibility to protect the holders before selling the cards?

NeilDowney

Hi Guys, I have had a basic problem with PSA graded cards that I have won recently. I have found that more and more cards that I get sent to me have holders that are scuffed, scratched, dinged and even cracked. Whenever I buy a card or grade a card, I try to protect the holder from undue damage during storage or during handling. Shouldn't I expect this from other sellers and buyers? I don't expect all of the holders to be brand new and in pristine condition but I do expect them to be reasonably protected. I have had sellers tell me that I bought the card and not the holder. However, my thought is that you are buying the holder as part of the purchase or bid price. Otherwise, put the card into a top loader and reduce the price $7-$10. I have on a few occasions paid more for the card because it was just reholdered and in pristine condition. Also, it is a bit of a hassle to have cards reholdered not to mention that it's not free. I can't even resell the card because the holders have damage and I would try not to do that to another collector. Is it too much to ask that sellers take some time to look at a card and determine if the holder is too nicked up to sell as is and needs to be reholdered at their expense? What are your thoughts on this ever growing problem. Neil

grilloj39

Neil...I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, tell the seller he/she can't have it both ways. They advertise and promote the card as a "PSA" card, and yet when their is a problem with the "PSA" product being improperly packaged or maintained, they turn around and say..."Oh, it's a 19XX card your're buying, not a PSA card. If you are unsatisfied, I think there is nothing inappropriate with returning the card and getting a refund.

NeilDowney

I have in my Ebay write-ups "No returns on graded cards". Most sellers have this in their Ebay write-ups. This is to protect me from any "Monday morning graders" who think that PSA made a mistake in the grade that they gave the enclosed card. I can't make PSA give a card a higher or lower grade (althought I can bet that a lot of us wish that we could). I rely on PSA to know more than me and give the card the correct grade as per the standards set by PSA. Once I question that standard, I might as well sell my entire graded collection and go back to fighting it out with dealers over raw cards. When I sell a PSA graded card, I stand behind the whole product including the holder. We all know with age, PSA holders can get a little less than pristine due to the softness of the plastic used. It is because of this, they need to be protected and inspected as much as possible before they are sold, bought or traded to anyone on the open market. Neil

Boopotts

This shouldn't be a problem so long as you BUY THE CARD, NOT THE HOLDER

Sorry, I couldn't resist. FWIW I agree with you; if you ever plan on selling a card it's a good idea to keep the holder nice.

goose3

I'll take this a step further.....

PSA should PROTECT their holders. I have received probably around 500 of them since January and I cannot tell you how many of them have been scratched, scuffed, etc....

I just got one back that is now on ebay with a tiny crack on one side.

Sure they'll fix it but I bet you I'd have to eat shipping x2 to fix their problem

ColleSystem

If you do not offer returns on graded cards because the buyer might not agree with the PSA grade, then you better not sell cards that you know PSA overgraded. You can't have it both ways and still maintain integrity. Why would you want someone to get stuck with a card that was obviously overgraded?

Scott

lostdart58

I always get a kick out of this topic.......................Let us put the holder...in a holder in a holder..........or better yet lets have PSA start a division where they grade the condition of their holders..................Mind you I do not want to get a card in a cracked holder.......................other then that.......I am buying the card and not the holder............GIVE me a break!!!

1966CUDA

I agree with Goose...cant tell you how many cards I get directly from them with scratches. Every card I get from them goes directly into a graded card bag to protect them. Maybe PSA should somehow protect them??? Or take better care when packageing them. I think most of my recent submissions have all had some arrive with scratches.

ColleSystem

I agree with buying the card. Granted, no one wants a 1952 topps registry set on the auction block with scuffed up holders.

-Scott

SOM

So, Neil...

if i bought a PSA card from you, and I did not approve of the holder (which was damaged, scratched, etc), would you refund my money under those conditions? Or, would you resort to your disclaimer: "No returns on graded cards"?

How you respond to my question dictates what you should expect from sellers yourself.

Nick

1420sports

However, my thought is that you are buying the holder as part of the purchase or bid price. Otherwise, put the card into a top loader and reduce the price $7-$10.

I disagree completely. You are buying the card and the grading/authentication. The price you are paying for the card which was authenticated by PSA, is going to be higher than buying a raw example - for me I am paying a higher price for piece of mind. If the holder is scratched, that is unfortunate but the card, the grade and the authentication are still intact. A card does not increase in value based on the plastic slab, it increases because of the grading fee and authentication. That is why a 1933 Goudey PSA 3 Babe Ruth will go for 2K and a raw one on eBay goes for much less.

As soon as I receive a PSA card, I place it in plastic sleeve. I have yet to receive a PSA slab that is cracked, although I have received many that have light scratches but nothing major. "Light scratches" are no biggie, although there are many slab maniacs out there and I know of many dealers who can't believe that a card is being returned due to a few scratches on the slab. Every grading company uses plastic, and plastic gets scratched. Buy some Goo Gone .... it works.

goose3

<< <i>So, Neil...

if i bought a PSA card from you, and I did not approve of the holder (which was damaged, scratched, etc), would you refund my money under those conditions? Or, would you resort to your disclaimer: "No returns on graded cards"?

How you respond to my question dictates what you should expect from sellers yourself.

Nick >>




Nick,

so if you were to pick up an extremely nice (let's say for discussion's sake) PSA8 1959 AAron and the holder had some scuffs and marks, you'd return it???????????

I would suspect that not many people would like to sell to someone that would return for such reasons. As Neil stated, you are buying THE CARD and the GRADE.

NeilDowney

I am not a fanatic when it comes to a graded card's holder. I understand that with age, the holder can get a few light scratches or scuff marks. However, I am upset when the card holder looks like it has been dragged on a cement floor or stepped on and cracked. The scratches may not affect the card inside but a large crack could damage or crease the card. Who wants to take a chance that a cracked holdered PSA 8 card comes back as a PSA 5 or 6 because it now has a surface crease. How about the expense of reholdering a higher priced card? The fee is only $5 but what about the shipping charges both ways. If the card is valued between $501-$1,000 then the shipping back from PSA is $13.40 plus the shipping to PSA which would be about $7 with insurance. Now we are up to $25 or more in extra expenses for just one higher priced card. Who should pay for this reholdering? I think that the seller should take care of this before the card is sold or offer the buyer a partial refund to cover the costs of reholdering. I believe that minor blemishes are not a big deal but major damage has to be dealt with by the seller - not the buyer. To answer the question placed on me. I look at all of the holders to determine if they are in decent shape before listing them for sale. However, if the holder got damaged in transit - I would give a refund and then file for the insurance which was bought on the card. The insurance that you buy covers the entire contents of the package, not just the cardboard in the plastic case. Neil

PSARich

Go on ebay and buy NOVUS Plastic Scratch Remover and Polish. For under $20 you can a kit of three NOVUS products: 1) polish, 2) removing light scratches, and 3) removing heavy scratches. Works great and handles most scratches on the PSA holders and then polishes the plastic so its beautiful. Good investment if you want nice PSA holders.

1420sports

I too would be upset if a holder came cracked or appeared to be dragged on the floor, but the seller should have disclosed that. If it was damaged in transit, then the seller should have refunded the reholder fee, as well as shipping costs to and from PSA ... if the buyer keeps the card.

Actually I am reminded of a recent card that I received from Tom Witek - it arrived cracked due to shoddy packaging. He offered nothing in return, as the card is still good. No apology for his lack of insight when shipping the card, and due to that he lost a customer.

NeilDowney

Just a quick update. The seller has offered a full refund for the cards in question. He realized that perhaps he didn't take enough care in handling and packaging of the PSA cards in hopes that the holder itself will protect the cards. We both dealt with each other with respect so there are no hard feelings. Perhaps someday PSA will use a harder plastic so that these kinds of problems don't happen so easily. Neil

thefootballcardstore

I'll have to disagree with this one:



<< <i>then you better not sell cards that you know PSA overgraded >>



Everything is so subjective, how am I always supposed to know what is overgraded?
Do you think I could get away with telling someone that something is undergraded?
Isn't the reason we send our cards and money to PSA to get a third party opinion, to clear about doubt about condition?

I've had people tell me that cards I though were NMMT at best were some of the nicest cards they've ever seen.
And also, I've had people tell me that cards I thought were gem mint were no better than NMMT to them.
And then there is the mint grade, are you more into corners, edges, surface or centering?
Personally centering is more important, but then I have those that say they don't care as much aabout centering as long as their are 3 perfect corners and smooth edges. It's all person preference.

My policy is listed in my store:

The Football Card Store utilizes a third party authenticator to avoid situations that create difference of opinion, consume large amounts of administration time, or give rise to additional overhead.

I post a nice big scan and let the buyer decide.

__________________________________________________________

Here is a little story. I had a 1979 Lambert PSA 9 a few years back I thought was not in the right holder, I though that for sure it was PSA 7 or PSA 9 OC at best, so I took it to a PSA booth at some show somewhere. Well, they looked at it and said it was indeed a straight PSA 9.

Walking away from the PSA booth a semi-regular buyer noticed me and ask to see the card. The were in awe of how nice it was, they said it had prefect corners and was the best looking 79 colorfully they had ever seen. They paid well over SMR PSA 9 right on the spot.
After that I've always said, who am I to judge?

ColleSystem

Hi Neil:

Glad to hear everything worked out!

-Scott

jradke4

Sometimes they come from PSA scratched.

alnavman

I've gotten cards that had scratches on them at times but never any with cracks. The scratches don't bother me but I would be quite upset if a crack was not disclosed. To be honest I have to agree with the other posters that say you are buying the card and not the holder. I to have received cards right from PSA with marks on them. Next thing you'll be seeing the cards holders graded. You'll have a PSA 10 card and a PSA 9 (SK) holder. (New scratch designation). Hey, maybe I've hit on my future fortune!!! al.