another good reason sellers wait on BUYERS to leave feedback..

pandrews

because so many buyers are idiots.. and i try to be nice to the point where i SPEND money to get the friggin item to the TOTAL IDIOT customer..

i sell a bobble head with a Buy-It-Now price of $6.95+$5.95 shipping..

buyer pays in a timely fashion..

i ship the bobblehead to his PAYPAL CONFIRMED ADDRESS via Priority Mail, I also buy delivery confirmation.

a few days later an email from the idiot buyer saying "for some reason, the package was returned".. i have no idea what the hell he's talking about..

sure enough the next day i get the package back in the mail, return to sender, with an explanation of "NO SUCH NUMBER" (keep in mind, this is his PAYPAL CONFIRMED ADDRESS) -- yes, the address DOES EXIST, i checked with the post office and confirmed it. I confirmed that the street number DOES EXIST.

So I mail the damn package AGAIN via priority mail, and the same thing happens, return to sender, no such number.

I write the idiot buyer an email and ask him to find out why he's able to get other packages delivered to his address, but not mine. I tell him he needs to check with his local post office and see whats going on.

Instead of doing like I asked, or expressing any concern that I've now paid to send this package to him twice, he writes me back and says "I get other packages fine. Please mail it to my work address instead, sorry for the inconvenience." and then he gives me a new address to send it to.

So just to get this low-intelligence buyer off of my back, and out of the goodness of my heart, and out of sympathy for mentally-handicapped people, i tell him i'll send it to him again, this time to his work address.. (even though it's not "paypal confirmed")..

so today i get a email from him saying that as soon as he took his bobble head out of the box, the head fell off.. he would like a refund and wants to know what his options are..

so far i'm leaning towards telling him a few options i think would be appropriate, such as him jumping off a large building..

first of all, arent ALL bobblehead "heads" loose and sitting on a spring? or are they glued to the spring?

yes, i'll probably end up giving him a refund anyway, but i might make him at least go through the hassle of dealing with paypal to get his refund.. (since i did ship it to an unconfirmed address the last time, just trying to be nice)

so anyway, lets see..

i have no friggin idea how much i paid for the bobblehead, probably 9 or 10 bucks, ive had it a few years i think, so just assuming i paid $3 bucks for it,

Bobblehead = $3
ebay Final Value Fee = .50cents (i dont know how much it was, but 50 cents should be a fair estimate)
Time & Packaging = worthless to most ebay buyers -- they couldnt care less about a sellers time.
Priority Mail = $4.85x3 = 14.55
Delivery Confirmation = $.55x2 = $1.10
Refund because buyer is unhappy = $12.90

so not counting my time or aggravation, this buyer will cost me $32.05..

i'm damn glad i didnt leave him postitive feedback after he paid me.. the transaction was FAR FROM FINISHED at that time, regardless of what "ebay buyers" think..

larryallen73

I normally defend the buyer but WOW you got a dumb buyer on your hands! That sucks. I would say to take the neg but your future sales will lose you more by having the neg on your feedback. So, suck it up, give him his money back and move on to the next deal. Cuss him out, etc... but move on to the next one.... Good luck.

pandrews

<< <i>So, suck it up, give him his money back and move on to the next deal. Cuss him out, etc... but move on to the next one.... Good luck. >>



yeah i will, i realize its the cost of doing business..

and buyers are always gonna have to realize part of their "cost of doing business" with me is gonna be that they dont get feedback until the deal is DONE.

it's reinforced the fact that unless i know the buyer, under no circumstance will a buyer ever get feedback from me, simply for a quick payment..

baseballfanatic

I have never given feedback first for the same reason. There are WAY too many people out there who use Ebay as a joke because it is so easy to open up a new account, and they dont give a crap whose feedback they screw up. I know of one guy that is over 150 IDs now and the guy makes a living by extorting people on Ebay.......

wick70

Tell him to send it back to you and when it's delivered, write "Return to Sender" on the package. Do this a few times to let him get a taste.

Wick

Tabe

If the PO confirms that the address exists, why are they returning the package to you? And, if they've confirmed it exists, why are they charging you multiple times to ship it when it's their fault it wasn't delivered?

Tabe

ranger63

<< <i>Tell him to send it back to you and when it's delivered, write "Return to Sender" on the package. Do this a few times to let him get a taste.

Wick >>



totally what i would do...at least he doesnt get to keep the money.

wick70

It's probably the guy's wife. The package is delivered during the daytime when she is home. She's probably told him plenty of times to knock off the Ebay purchases and takes it into her own hands.

Wick

Spahnfan

That really does suck. I have had a few dealings with a few knotheads, but not quite like that.

I am not sure it gives you any relief from your frustration, but remember that you only came out on the short end of one transaction by $32, the other poor sap will be dumb the rest of his life. I am willing to bet he will come out on the short end of many transactions and probably for more than $32.

pandrews

<< <i>If the PO confirms that the address exists, why are they returning the package to you? >>



dont know.. but it's his paypal confirmed address.. it's not my job to find out why he didnt get it.. i shouldnt have been nice enough to agree to ship it to his work address either.. one of my suspicions is that he or maybe someone he lived with was rejecting the packages (an angry girlfriend, maybe?) -- again, not my job to find out why.. just my job to send it to his confirmed paypal address, which i did..



<< <i>And, if they've confirmed it exists, why are they charging you multiple times to ship it when it's their fault it wasn't delivered? >>



they probably wouldnt have charged me the 2nd time, but you can confirm that an address exists by using the "find a zip code" feature on the USPS website, and if it gives you the zipcode+4, you know the address is legit.. (again, that makes me believe someone in the house rejected it)..

RedHeart54

<< <i>yeah i will, i realize its the cost of doing business.. >>



Now you see what big business goes through with the various shakedown artists out there. The only difference is you're out $32. They'd be out $32 million.

pandrews

<< <i>Now you see what big business goes through with the various shakedown artists out there. The only difference is you're out $32. They'd be out $32 million. >>



oh i was already aware of costs of business, ive ran a couple of them, and also pretty much always was involved in some type of "sales" job..

plus on ebay, with over 6500 feedbacks, ive already dealt with alot of ignorant buyers..

im not worried about the $32 bucks, the money doesnt annoy me so much.. but yes, i always hate losing money, whether it's $1.00 or $20k..

my main issue is that there are still people that think a transaction is done after a buyer pays.. that's incorrect, and i wanted to use this scenario as an example..

MuckyMutt

Excellent example, PA!!

And a fine and wonderful rant - well done!

SoFLPhillyFan

Once had a buyer leave me a neutral. This bothered me since it was the first (and still is) feedback other than a positive I have received.

He bought a card. An inexpensive modern. I sent it in a penny sleeve and top loader. Enclosed that in the Paypal packing slip. Sent all in a bubble mailer. At the time I did not put scotch tape on the opening of the top loader. I don't like peeling the tape and residue off myself when buying, so I don't do it to buyers.

This guy leaves a neutral saying that "the card fell out of the top loader" and "shoddy packaging." Never bothered to contact me first.

I now use a team bag for the toploader, instead of scotch taping the opening.

I refunded his money and told him to keep the card.

Left him positive feedback but mentioned that he could have contacted me first.

Sometimes it's just not worth it to bother and the best thing is to give them the money.

In my present Ebay sales, delving into high quality prints of exclusive sports photos (shameless plug), 3 times the USPS has disregarded the larger than life "DO NOT BEND" printed several times on the package. 3 out of over 100 isn't bad though.

Again, it's best for me to just send out another print. The business decision is always best.

Keith

poppie

<< <i> have never given feedback first for the same reason. There are WAY too many people out there who use Ebay as a joke because it is so easy to open up a new account, and they dont give a crap whose feedback they screw up. I know of one guy that is over 150 IDs now and the guy makes a living by extorting people on Ebay....... >>

Leave immediate feedback for the good people out there. There is way to many buyers that have less upstairs than Andrews bobble heads! Hold off on the under 50 feedback people. I just did three shipments tonight where I purchased both insurance and Sig. Confirmations with my nickel because they were under 50 feedbacks. 100% but way too new!

sandmanfromlv

I had a guy buy a raw card for next to nothing as compared to the value and the guy tells me he thinks it has been trimmed (I am 99.99% sure it's NOT), but he claims it is 1/32" short....I told the guy to send it back (really don't care since it didn't bring as much as I had hoped for), but told him in the future he might want to spend more than $75 for a 69 Mantle if he wanted a PSA 7 or higher...

I know the card was fine as I measured it once I bought it, but hey, gives me reason to send into PSA now, get it graded and get at least 3 times the money for it on eBay....card was really nice too, but I will refund...

zef204

<< <i>I know the card was fine as I measured it once I bought it, but hey, gives me reason to send into PSA now, get it graded and get at least 3 times the money for it on eBay....card was really nice too, but I will refund... >>

There must be a reason you didn't do that in the first place.

Boopotts

I agree with the OP, and have gone as record saying as much in the past. Just because the buyer has paid promptly does not mean the seller is satisfied with the transaction; and the seller should be under no obligation to leave feedback until he's happy with the way the deal concluded itself. The idea that 'the buyer should get feedback once he pays, since he's done his job' just doesn't take everything into account.

sandmanfromlv

<< <i>There must be a reason you didn't do that in the first place. >>



TIMING....picked up the card for a decent price, tried to flip it w/o grading, now will send in....honestly don't think the card is/was trimmed...

MorrellMan

Perry - your patience and perserverance will be paid off.
Not by this guy, clearly, but somewhere, out there in the universe, there's good payback for you.

You've reiterated what I, and apparently several others here, have learned:
There are appropriate situations where a seller has to withold feedback until the buyer is satisfied.

WinPitcher

I too was once a believer that after a buyer paid he deserved feedback. However I now understand and agree that a transaction is not complete until both buyer and seller are satisfied. That can only be after the transaction has run its course. I still leave Pos. upon payment though in many cases.


Steve



perry sorry you had to go through all that.

i would advise the guy that maybe someone was rejecting the package at the confirmed address though.

Hub

Gotta put my two cents worth in, even though I know several of you will disagree. I'm a big "leave feedback right away" seller.

No question PA that the transaction turned out to be a major hassle. However, I submit that if you had left positive feedback right away, you may not be having this problem. Buyers love to get feedback as soon as they pay. They LOVE it! I truly believe that leaving feedback first cuts out a lot of the nonsense you're dealing with now. Buyers who receive feedback immediately upon paying are much, much less likely to hassle you upon receipt of the item. I'm convinced of that.

-Hub

MooseDog

I've had this same thing happen to me 2-3 times where I mail the item to an address and it gets returned (by the post office) as "no such address" or similar. In all cases I have taken the package back to the post office, explained that I had confirmed the address is correct, and they remailed the package without any additional charge.

In all cases the package arrived (safely) the 2nd time.

Of course if, as one poster noted, the guy's wife, roommate, or significant other is refusing to take delivery that is another story.

MorrellMan

<< <i>Gotta put my two cents worth in, even though I know several of you will disagree. I'm a big "leave feedback right away" seller.

No question PA that the transaction turned out to be a major hassle. However, I submit that if you had left positive feedback right away, you may not be having this problem. Buyers love to get feedback as soon as they pay. They LOVE it! I truly believe that leaving feedback first cuts out a lot of the nonsense you're dealing with now. Buyers who receive feedback immediately upon paying are much, much less likely to hassle you upon receipt of the item. I'm convinced of that.

-Hub >>



Hub - you are absolutely correct. Leaving positive feedback immediately usually sets the tone for a positive transaction all around. However, there are some exceptions to the rule. An astute seller will be able to spot the signs of a potential idiot.

MorrellMan

nothing to see here....move along....

Ilovebaseballcards

<< <i>delving into high quality prints of exclusive sports photos (shameless plug), 3 times the USPS has disregarded the larger than life "DO NOT BEND" printed several times on the package. 3 out of over 100 isn't bad though. >>



I would REQUIRE buyers to buy Postal Insurance, and then if they bend it, THEY can file a claim for damages from the PO.

interchanges

Never fails.....these problems seem to occur on the cheaper items that you simply wanted to just unload and be done with.

jmbkb4

I recently had a buyer attempt to return PSA 10 graded cards because "They just didn't look like PSA 10 quality cards."

I told him B.S. and to take his issues up with PSA.

WeekendHacker

Feedback on ebay - it is what it is - feedback. It can be used as an expectation for what a transaction might go like, but it is by no means a guarantee. As a seller, I usually leave + feedback for buyers who pay quickly and already have a solid history of ebay use. If their feedback is strong enough, I will usually even ship a card before their check clears. It sets up the transaction for success. Buyers with a short history on ebay, recently changed their user ID or low feedback, I always wait not only to ship the card, but to leave the feedback after they receive the card. Good info on this thread!!

MorrellMan

WH - you've basically described my M.O. and one that I think works. Just use a little common sense.

DeutscherGeist

I am sorry PA about your experience. However, it does not seem the guy is doing this out of any malice. Its just a stupid situation. There must be someone at his residence sending the packages back and he is just so clueless. He does not seem like a bad guy, but the situation is ridiculous.

You are a good seller who works on making the buyer whole and just chalks it up as cost of doing business.

Look at the big picture, occasionally you will get these bizarre transactions. Just suck it up and move on. It is not a failure of a seller to issue a refund. Giving that occasional refund is a good thing. I never want to take money from someone that feels he got the short end of it. I know some sellers stop at nothing to separate consumer and his money. Who needs to build bad karma like that.

I agree with Hub, leaving feedback upon payment really sets a positive tone in a transaction. A customer will remember what you did and return the favor by not making an issue of a borderline case. Giving feedback first when you have a high rating shows you respect and trust the customer. That goes a long way in how a customer feels about a transaction. You will cut down on a lot of refund requests.

Sellers like 4 sharp corners or DSL who do not care about sending me a scratched up PSA holder will no longer get my business, even though I doubt they will ever take someone's money and not send anything. Their customer service is still poor.

MorrellMan

Here's an interesting dichotomy - as this thread has progressed, we have all pretty much come to the same conclusion - instant feedback as a seller is not always a good idea, but, where the buyer is quick with payment and has overwhelmingly consistent positive feedback from sellers of similar merchandise, holding his feedback is not really called for.

Now I don't mean to set myself up as a righteous example, but here is my feedback profile. 99.99% positive; over a thousand positives from more than two thousand transactions, 99% all from card sellers or buyers - one negative from a buyer a couple of years ago who didn't understand what he was doing. So how come one in ten sellers leaves me feedback before I leave it for him. I'll repeat that - one in ten. 90% of the time I have to recommend the seller before he'll recommend me.

F'g ridiculous.

And while I'm ranting - when are cell phones going to be outlawed in cars? Aren't you supposed to be thinking about the road when you're driving?

yankeeno7

I ALWAYS wait for the buyer to leave the positive feedback first. Too many times do I see buyers want to hold sellers hostage with feedback. How many of us have given a positive feedback and some goofy customer only to get a negative in return for some VERY stupid reason? Or at least with something that could have been handled? Most buyers are wonderful...but its those few that can really put a hurting on you.
As far as I am concerned, a buyer leaving his feedback completes the transaction because it lets the seller and everyone else know that they are satisfied with the product and the transaction.

MorrellMan

<< <i> How many of us have given a positive feedback and some goofy customer only to get a negative in return for some VERY stupid reason? >>



Once in 6 years, close to 2500 transactions. With all due respect, I don't buy your argument.

yankeeno7

Not an arguement...I know it rarely happens but it does happen...just making the point. Thats just one example of so many small ones that can add up.

MorrellMan

Okay then. I respect your position. So let me ask: If I won a lot from you and paid immediately, woul dyou not leave positive feedback for me until I left it for you?

yankeeno7

Exactly...I am going to wait until I find out that you are 100% satisfied with the transaction. If you have a great feedback and I receive and email of your content, then I just might leave it first.

sandmanfromlv

<< <i>I am going to wait until I find out that you are 100% satisfied with the transaction >>



If I am 100% happy with the transaction then I would do my part as the BUYER and give you the seller your due positive feedback...why should I as the buyer be held hostage to you the seller in the fact that I have already done my part by paying....

Once you do your part as the seller by shipping me the correct item, I return the favor in kind and give you your feedback...

This is/will always be a chicken/egg argument and those who feel one way will continue their way of business and so will the other side...no real point of arguing really...

Hub

Too many times do I see buyers want to hold sellers hostage with feedback. How many of us have given a positive feedback and some goofy customer only to get a negative in return for some VERY stupid reason?

I don't mean to sound righteous either, but I have never had a buyer hold feedback hostage and never received a negative for a stupid reason. All my auctions say this:

"Feedback policy. When someone buys something from us, we leave feedback right away! We don't play the "wait and see" game. WE HATE THE WAIT AND SEE GAME!! We believe that when a buyer pays for an item, the buyer has earned positive feedback. It's then up to us to provide the product advertised, and feedback should be left (by the buyer) accordingly.
Way too many sellers hold feedback "hostage." In other words, I'll leave you positive feedback ONLY if you do the same for me. We don't do that and we don't buy from sellers who do.
Feedback is earned by the buyer when payment is made--feedback is earned by the seller when the item is received. That’s the way it should be."


4964 positives, 3 negatives. I can live with that, especially where I know my policy leads to higher bid amounts and tons of repeat customers.

yankeeno7

It would be difficult as a seller to hold feedback hostage over a buyer. The final word whether a transaction is successful is the buyer letting the seller know.
The seller receives the funds, sends the card and thats it. I think the seller always wants to leave the positive feedback. Why would the seller give positive feedback first when there is a potential problem with the transaction? For any reason...damaged in the mail, unsatisfied with condition, etc...sellers have to know that the buyer is pleased with the transaction.

I have no problem when sellers dont give me feedback until I have left mine.

yankeeno7

If that works for you then that is great. I have had plenty of repeat customers and no one ever complains about receiving feedback after they have left it for me.
Again, when I am the buyer, I have no problem leaving feedback first if I am satisfied with the transaction.

calleocho

I leave feedback once a month or so...I just wait until i have a few and then do it all at once.

I have two negatives, both were problems involving newer cards ...Never had an issue with vintage PSA cards.

DeutscherGeist

There are a lot of ethical buyers out there that get feedback held hostage when a seller delivers something not as described. The buyer calls on the seller to honor his refund policy and when the seller refuses, the buyer cannot give a negative without retaliation. If the seller had given feedback as soon as payment is received, the buyer can contact the seller about the refund and if the seller does not comply or honor his own written refund policy, the buyer could at least leave a negative without any fear what so ever and contact Ebay Buyer Protection to get some money back.

When dealing with collectibles of any kind that are raw, the seller is more susceptible in hyping the condition and the buyer more sensitive to even the most remote flaws. Who is ultimately right? The buyer is. But when a seller tries to honestly describe the items only rarely will he have to issue the refund and that is a good track record.

The sellers on this board generally have no problem with issuing refunds. They give the money back to the customer and just be done with it. Sometimes they demand the product back other times they don't. 2-3 cases like this out of a 100 is a good record. Its just the cost of doing business--nothing personal.



I do not like the occasional buyer who buys a PSA 9 or 10 with a clearly visible scan front and back to demand a refund because they didn't agree with the grade. That is a PSA problem not a seller problem. However, if the buyer complains of a red dot that did not show up in the scan and was not described, the buyer has a perfect case. If the holder is seriously scratched up or cracked, but was not so in the scan, that is a packaging issue in which the seller should help the customer get a $5 voucher for reholdering or give that amount in money. Postal insurance is not the answer because the last time I tried that they wanted proof that I get it reholdered before issuing the money--that is insane becuase the postage to PSA would exceed that money. I will send it to PSA once I collect a large enough shipment of cards to do so. Post Office does not buy it--at least the one here.

I have never been able to collect on holders that have been seriously scratched because the seller ignores emails and has not given feedback. I have heard other buyers from this board get $5 back.

LWMM

Is there some program that automatically leaves feedback once it is recieved? I just left about 10 for different sellers, and got back 3 which were the exact same, from 3 different sellers, in seconds...

Good buyer, prompt payment, valued customer, highly recommended.

pandrews

<< <i>Is there some program that automatically leaves feedback once it is recieved? >>




yes, ebay's "selling manager" will automatically leave feedback once feedback is received..