Choosing a TPG for Darkside...

coinpictures · April 12, 2006 12:33PM

Well, I received this coin the other day:

I think it's as bogus as the day as long. Looks and feels like brass to me.

Seller, however, is so adamantly sure that it is legit, that the only way he'll refund is if I send it off to a TPG, and if it comes back fake, he'll refund plus pay the certification fees.

*shrug* Ok. Seems like throwing good money after bad to me, but what do I know?

So I sat down and compiled the current pricing on world coin grading from the TPGs, and put together a web page showing the various tiers and costs for world coins, as well as a cost comparison for a 5-coin submission for each TPG:

http://www.coinpictures.com/tpgs.html

Bottom line is that I'm leaning towards ANACS, although the 10-coin initial submission deal from ICG is tempting. Another thing to watch out for is the maximum value limits at each tier (many of them have a $300 limit per coin on economy service, but ANACS bumps that limit to $500 per coin, which makes them potentially a better deal depending on what you're submitting).

Any comments, corrections, or suggestions are welcome!

[Apologies if someone else has already done an at-a-glance comparison, but I didn't find one...]

koincollect · April 12, 2006 1:13PM

I would submit it to ANACS if I were you. They are the best in detecting counterfeits IMO. They are the best in accurately grading world coins too. I do not submit to them now as they do not attribute world coins properly (in one case returning the coin stating it was not in Krause!!!), bad new holder and equally bad customer service. They did not even note the problem on one net graded coin. That was the last straw for me.

NGC's turnaround time is the best and they are also very good in attributing world coins, taking extra time to get it right, and use a lot of standard reference books.

Just my 2c.

rhound1977 · April 12, 2006 7:59PM

I consistently use NGC and ANACS....

ajaan · April 12, 2006 9:07PM

In this case I would use NGC because of the quick turnaround time. If the coin sits too long at the TPG the seller may be less likely to refund your money if it is indeed a fake. Also, NGC is the cheapest now.

coinpictures · April 12, 2006 9:32PM

How do you figure NGC is the cheapest?

Cheapest tier at NGC is $16.50; cheapest tier at ANACS is $16.00...

ccrdragon · April 12, 2006 9:32PM

NGC -- ANACS is in the middle of a move from Ohio(?) to Austin and is having major turn-around problems currently

MrEureka · April 12, 2006 10:24PM

What makes you think the coin is fake?

Aethelred · April 12, 2006 10:45PM

Even if that coin is real it would not be graded by NGC or PCGS because of the harsh cleaning. You should not have to go to so much trouble to return a coin you are not happy with IMO.

MrEureka · April 12, 2006 11:14PM

Even if that coin is real it would not be graded by NGC or PCGS because of the harsh cleaning.

Doesn't seem all that harsh to me. If real, I would expect it to grade.

Aethelred · April 12, 2006 11:28PM

<< <i>Even if that coin is real it would not be graded by NGC or PCGS because of the harsh cleaning.

Doesn't seem all that harsh to me. If real, I would expect it to grade. >>

Look at the hairlines on the reverse.

Stork · April 12, 2006 11:29PM

If there are concerns regarding a cleaning, I think your best bet is ANACS...especially as you less intereted in the slab and really after counterfeit status. I believe you can still request their old slabs.

Cathy

MrEureka · April 13, 2006 12:30AM

Look at the hairlines on the reverse.

I see them. Lots of coins with hairlines get graded. I'd guess that this one would grade 61, if real.

MrEureka · April 13, 2006 12:32AM

Looks and feels like brass to me.

Based on the picture, copper or bronze is far more likely.

coinmickey · April 13, 2006 1:21AM

What is the seller's return policy?

I agree with Aethelred, why are you having to go through all of this to get your money back?

Why can't you just return it??

coinpictures · April 13, 2006 3:14AM

It's a seller I do a lot of business with, so I want to keep the relationship "friendly." He got a bit testy when I used the word "fake", so I think he's trying to prove a point.

I don't have a problem with it in this instance, since I don't see a downside for me. If it's bogus, he refunds and pays the fees. If it's legit, well I probably would have wanted to slab it at some point anyway...

I still cannot imagine it coming back legit though.

ajaan · April 13, 2006 5:22AM

I though ANACS's lowest price was $20, my mistake. I still would rather pay the extra 50c to NGC and get the coin back in three weeks compared to the 3 months ANACS economy can take.

ROBERTB · April 13, 2006 5:26AM

Dont forget NGC gives a 10% discount for filling out the submission form online.

--- or did they stop that?

Aethelred · April 13, 2006 8:45AM

<< <i>Look at the hairlines on the reverse.

I see them. Lots of coins with hairlines get graded. I'd guess that this one would grade 61, if real. >>

Not if the hairlines are from cleaning, which appears to be the case here.

Aethelred · April 13, 2006 8:47AM

<< <i>It's a seller I do a lot of business with, so I want to keep the relationship "friendly." He got a bit testy when I used the word "fake", so I think he's trying to prove a point.

I don't have a problem with it in this instance, since I don't see a downside for me. If it's bogus, he refunds and pays the fees. If it's legit, well I probably would have wanted to slab it at some point anyway...

I still cannot imagine it coming back legit though. >>

What is the weight?

coinpictures · April 13, 2006 9:55AM

Nuts, my digital scale is going off the deep end... Damned Chinese P.O.S....

Anyway, according to my balance scale, it weighs 14.6 grams.

coinkat · April 13, 2006 10:22AM

The weight should be 15 grams

wybrit · April 13, 2006 11:59AM

Dont forget NGC gives a 10% discount for filling out the submission form online.

They still do.

SeaEagleCoins · June 30, 2008 3:42AM

Bringing this thread to the top to ask this...

After two years and an almost total switch of ANACS & ICG graders...I would guess there might be some "new" opinions on what TPG would be prefered for World Coins...

I recently acquired some 17th to 19th century Thalers, a few older Turkish pieces, a few Chinese coins, some Indian coins and a smattering of other coins. If I were to decide to have them holdered, who would you recommend?

RareBronzeCollector · June 30, 2008 3:53AM

Actually, I'm curious as to the ultimate outcome of the original post..... Was the coin slabbed??? And at what grade??? Or was it Fake????

Daltonista · June 30, 2008 7:53AM

Many contemporary counterfeits of these circulated...but probably not as many as their predecessors, the 1811-12 18d and 3/- tokens. They're listed on eBay UK all the time, generally acknowledged by their sellers as contempo-fakes.

Here's one active now.

And another.

My hunch is that you'll pay more to have it "certified" than it's worth.

Best to all ~
Tom

ormandh · June 30, 2008 10:00AM

Forgive me for my two cents, but this coin looks fine. I do not know the series whatsoever, but if you lookk at the devices, it appears to have the frostiness that one would expect with the flow of the metal. Maybe the hairlining you are seeing is possibly cabinet friction or friction from a holder. With a different view one may be able to tell, but it looks like a good coin from my eye. Why would this particular coin be any other way? To add to this discussion after trying to find this coin, I can't find it in my Krause. I still do not see a cleaning on this coin from the pics. Pay attention to the devices, they look frosty to me. -Dan

Choosing a TPG for Darkside...

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