Okay, all of the Jefferson Nickel haters can flame away...

FullStepJeffs

Alright.... there are sometimes even I think... WTFO?

Background: In 2004 someone busted the population for 1969-S Jeffersons in MS66 (NOT EVEN Full Steps)... Now there are 9 in MS66 with 1 in MS67 with none... NONEin Full Steps. At the time these coins were sold on the Bay of E and various other places for a ballpark of $200 each.

I noticed one of the MS66's was going up in the Teletrade auction last night and figured, with the coins selling for $200 or so just two years ago... the possibility existed that I might get the one they had for a maximum of $400. I mean... all of the modern haters would be caught dead bidding on a coin with a mintage of 123,099,631.

So, then the auction happens... and BAM... $1850 without the juice...

HERE IT IS...

So, I'll ask this again... will all the modern haters please stand up and tell me why there were at least two people bidding this coin to this level? I can tell you it definitely wasn't one bidder against the reserve... it opened at the $360 level (which was probably close to the reserve), with three hours left it was $800+, two hours left... $1200+... and went haywire with 10 minutes left.

I'm just shocked that a modern non-full step coin would sell for this price... it has to be the top price ever paid for a non-full step Jefferson Nickel (non-error) minted within the last 40 years. BTW, the PCGS price guide says it's a $260 coin, which I thought was about right.

This maybe the only time I ever say this about a modern coin, but can the new owner of this coin please explain this to me?

Steve

LindeDad

And Jeff lost the duel on that one too. A MS66 with a major gash on the cheek. It and a couple of 1964 MS64FB went crazy late night.

LincolnsRule

I just submitted and got back a whole bunch of 69-d nickels, a very similar date to 69-s. That coin on teletrade would not go higher than ms64 today. I have 69-s's that I have yet to submit. I wasn't going to sell any ms66's unless I could get $500+ for them. That's about what I figured they should be worth.

wondercoin

My 2 cents -

The $2,100 price tag on the 1969(s) nickel MS66 is rediculous UNLESS the coin is 4++ steps. The scans certainly did not suggest that, but, having not seen the coin in person, I can not state with 100% certainty that the coin was not 4+ steps.

The Price Guide might need to move up a bit from $260, BUT, NOT THAT MUCH!!

Wondercoin

FullStepJeffs

<< <i>My 2 cents -

UNLESS the coin is 4++ steps.

Wondercoin >>



I'll put money on it the coin has no more than 3 steps... but probably 2 with a ramp for the rest.

Another question I wasn't even going to bring up was the grade in question... Clackamas' 68-D MS64FS coin has a very similar cut on the face, and looks much better than this 69-S...

Maybe someone wanted to purchase the coin to get it off the market and make PCGS pay for the mistake... could that be the answer?

Steve

larrynj

it's just a shame that 2 jeff 5c's that reached newsworthy price levels were both overgraded pieces.

clackamas

Thats not even a 66, IMO. I have a nice 65 with 4.95 steps that I am happy with What would a 67 go for? I paid ~$600 for the POP1 MS67 68-S.

FullStepJeffs

And the Jefferson Nickel haters stay away... amazing.

Steve

LincolnsRule

Hey! I just realized I own all the ms65 and ms66 69-s Jefferson in my World Series Portfolio! Cool! For some reason the ms67 is not in the price guide.

clackamas

<< <i>Hey! I just realized I own all the ms65 and ms66 69-s Jefferson in my World Series Portfolio! Cool! For some reason the ms67 is not in the price guide. >>



Until the pops go up when I send in the best six from 650 mint sets

LincolnsRule

We'll see. I looked though 150 of those same mint sets and didn't find any worthy to submit. I had a super nice bankroll once though. I have no doubt I have at least one ms66.

FullStepJeffs

I still say... even if this coin was a true MS66 coin... the price was nuts for this grade. I'm sure others are thinking of selling as I write this... but, again $300 is probably max with a pop of 20.

Steve

clackamas

The POP is 9 so it is a difficult coin to make, I will attest after going through ~650 mints sets they are not common in high grade. The coins in the mint sets get nasty counter marks that grind away part of the obverse on nearly all of the coins. A coin that would be a lock 66 becomes a BB damage straight from the mint. I would say 85% of the coins I have seen would never make it in a holder to begin with. So you have to find the 66, probably a 1:40 that did not get damaged. I was reaquainted to the date last night but I agree for a POP 9 coin the price was crazy.

DIMEMAN

I'm not a Jeff hater, but that is stupid money for ANY modern coin! There are just too many of them even if they are of lessor quality.

Jon

PS: The Jeff Nickel is probably the best looking coin of ALL the moderns.

I just went out and looked at the coin. I don't know much about Jeff nickels, but this one is butt ugly. I think I have gotten nickels in change in better shape than that one. And the detail on the rev. is lousey. I don't know how that made 66!!!

clackamas

<< <i> in change in better shape than that one. And the detail on the rev. is lousey. ! >>



The rev detail is terrible on all of them. The master hubs had not been recut since 1939. I have first strike coins that are proof like, with as hammered a strike as was possible and still show little detail on the reverse. There simply was no detail to impart, its the nature of the date, hence the extreme rarity with full steps.

morgannut2

No matter what Cladking says in other threads--these bids are entirely the result of the Registry. No knowledgable collector--and THEY are here-- would bid over the $500 area for this coin after looking at it. The only explaination is the plastic, and by the way it's not just "modern junk"--I saw worse at the last ANR auction for everything from problem Morgans to AU58 Bust Halves in MS64 pop-top holders. IN EVERY CASE--the bidders were not live in the room looking at the coin.

FullStepJeffs

<< <i>would bid over the $500 area for this coin >>



I wouldn't have even bid that much...

Steve

cladking

The coin is not the greatest but it's hardly junk. There are a lot of steps
even if they aren't complete and the coin is not unattractive despite the
scratch. Personally I don't think it's worth this kind of money at the cur-
rent time. This doesn't mean that it's a plastic collector or a registry col-
lector who's necessarily competing for it. There are a lot of individuals
with a lot of different experience who collect coins. Some are less con-
cerned about marking or strike. This coin could be extremely attractive
to the right individual and many people have a great deal of trust in the
grades.

This is a very attractive specimen even with the scratch if you can get by
the current price.

roadrunner

You say you are SURE that this auction was with 2 REAL bidders?
How do you know? Where you reviewing TT's electronic auction records? I had a similar occurrence with them where the price of a $50 coin got bid up to $1200. It was my coin so I know.

I gave the coin to TT to auction. It was worth $20 in the Krause world cat (1905 Japanese 20 Sen? - NGC63). I was hoping it might fetch $100. In any case it got rabidly bid up to $300, then $500, then $800, then $1000, and finally to $1200 over the course of several hours. I assumed it must be an overlooked rarity. I was dancing in the streets as I had paid $12+9 slab fee for it.

The coin was returned by the so-called "buyer." What to do now?
My huge profit evaporated. Put it up again. This time I want to protect my $21 "gem" and put in a reserve of $775. Guess what?
I bought it back exactly at my high bid. Dooooh! Something stinks here at TT. What to do now. OK, put it up again. No other choice.
Not learning my lesson too well, I reserved it at $180 (a fair profit still). Yup, I bought it back again exactly at my high reserve! Doooh!

What to do now? Yup, finally consigned it a last time and placed no reserve on it. It sold for $110. The $90 or so I "made" on the coin was exceeded by all the return fees, postage, and buy backs.

One can't believe all that you see on TT. You have no idea what deals are behind the bids. TT's partners own some of the coins that are sold there. There is no way to judge true competition in a TT sale. Then again, 2 "must have it" REG newbies may have decided they would own it at any price.

roadrunner

wondercoin

RR makes a good point, but, keep in mind something else. Not everyone can lot view a TT sale - in fact, few folks do best I know. I have personally lot viewed one sale I believe in the past year+. Now, I could take the time to set up an appointment, drive over there, spend numerous hours sifting through 1,000 coins, etc., etc., etc. But, clearly an alternative is to simply win the 1969(s) nickel at any price to enjoy the NO QUESTIONS ASKED return privilege. 5% return fee meant someone is out $100 or so if they do not like the coin. What if the coin was 4+ steps and therefore rare in this grade? What does a devoted collector really have to lose by winning this coin at any price - answer -about $100 at that bid level. IMHO, Teletrade has one of the fairest (no questions asked) return privileges in the entire coin industry for its bidders, especially because from what I see, it is now not that uncommon for even ebay sellers to charge 5% or more "restocking charges" on returns.

Wondercoin

Justhavingfun

Hi Steve:

I paid $200 for my 1969-S Jeff in MS 66. But I paid almost four times that for a beautiful '69-S in MS65 that has 4.75+ steps.

As for the record for the most paid for a non-full stepper, you should see my bee-you-tee-ful 1938-D Jeff graded MS 68 by PCGS. That's a dazzler of a coin and cost me a lot more than my 1938-D full stepper in MS67. Tha 1938-D in MS68 may be the most expensive non-full stepper in existence, but it was worth every penny of it.

Warm regards,


Just Having Fun

roadrunner

Wondercoin,

Your point is well taken. But having to pay an obscene price to get a coin leaves the buyer in a quandry knowing he overpaid but he lucked out and got a good coin. It's one thing to bid near market pricing and then decide if you want to spend 5% + shipping both ways and lost use of your money for 6-8 weeks. But it's entirely different if you have to pay "any price" or multiples of bid to get the coin. Bidding sight-unseen on a photo is no way to figure out if you paid a fair price. You don't know that until afterwords. Fortunately the majority of TT coins sell for only 10% or so over bid which is the house's profit on the many coins they do own. Having had to pay up to $350 in the past to return a TT coin, I know the true pain of playing this game. As Coin LT has also said, the deck is stacked.

roadrunner

larrynj

it wasn't necessary to see that coin in hand. the gash on tommy's jaw should have ruled out the grade regardless of the step count.

FullStepJeffs

RR,

Maybe your right, but the coin did sell, otherwise it wouldn't have a price realized, so someone bid it up there.

JHF,

When I said "I'm just shocked that a modern non-full step coin would sell for this price... it has to be the top price ever paid for a non-full step Jefferson Nickel (non-error) minted within the last 40 years.", I wasn't even considering pre-1964 Jeffersons. I know there are many early Jeffersons out there which would sell for more.

Peace!

Steve

mnmcoin

Maybe it was PCGS buying back their mistake...that is not an MS66.

morris <><