2006 New Card Product Release Survey - Your chance to vent on everything from overproduction to &quo

Stone193

In 2004, there were 253 product releases.

In 2005, there were 197.

It's anticipated that there will be 126 for 2006.

Also, there will be increased advertising of baseball cards and an increased presence of the card manufacturers at Stadiums throughout the country.

The manufacturers will also promote their products with special offers in SI for Kids and Tuff Stuff this year, e.g..

To further sweeten the pot, a National Baseball Card Day has been slated for June 17 and local shops have been guaranteed special "give away" promotional packs.

All of this is geared at bringing kids back to the hobby.

So my question is simple - are you optimistic? Or do you think the ship has sailed and when we go, so goes the farm?

And last, if Topps, e.g., is trying to bring kids back with "kid friendly" pricing. What, if anything, does the plan to have "highend" products like Triple threads at $150 for a 2 pack box, by Topps, do for the hobby?
Good? Bad? Just another day in the park?

I just thought with baseball getting under way and only two manufacturers of cards - how will the hobby do?

I will have to say, I'm one of the proponents of the concept that a "strong modern card market, translates into a stronger vintage market down the road."

Thanx for the responses
mike

Caricon

The only outlet besides the internet that I have for cards is Wal-Mart. It's an hours drive to a card store for me.
But as for Wal-Mart, I see empty boxes all the time so someone has to be buying the packs. I never get to see
those $100 boxes or $100 packs so I can't commet on them. But a few years when I was buying heavy amouts
of product including those $100 boxes my opinion was as an investment it wasn't worth it all. Just buy the
box and sell what you can to make your money back and some profit. Since all the local shops have closed up
I just haven't felt like buying much or even sort my cards anymore. I have 100,000 cards just sitting in boxes
in the back room. Not sure what I want to do with then anymore. I still buy a box, packs, and singles now
and then. Before I go, I like having less products available, but I enjoy Donruss a lot, and will miss them. Hope
Topps and Upper Deck put out some nice stuff that the kids can afford.

onlyanumber

Just my two cents...

I believe that there will always be a market for the hobby we are all a part of. Like coins and comic books, new collectors begin collecting and old collectors start to walk away every day. Whether there is new product or not, the collectors will find something in the hobby to go after. It could be the hot new cards--it could be the hot new rookie that debuted in Bowman products 5 years ago. It could be that error card from the 80's that suddenly received a resurgence in popularity.

We were bound to get to this point with all of the changes in the hobby over the past 10-15 years. Once upon a time there were 3 baseball card sets and the presses were rolling at the same speed as the newspaper presses. That rare rookie wasn't the needle in the haystack--it was hay in the haystack. Fast forward to today and the presses are still rolling out cards faster than before--the only difference is instead of having 3 cards of X player to choose from, now you have 126. Packs were bound to get more expensive as you used 'rare technology' and cut up HOFers bats and Jerseys and contracts. Now they want to go back to where they were and that place doesn't exist anymore. Our hobby is driven on value and perceived value. Kids know what value means, in some senses. Most kids out there will know that the Wal-Mart special belongs in the bike spokes, but tell him to keep collecting those cards when he has his rare Pokemon or Yugioh card pulls in top loaders.

What gets me is Topps decides to put an end to the 'internet dumpers' and cuts their supplies, yet jumps into the Walton's beds and increases the supplies you find at Wal-Mart. If that isn't hypocrisy, I don't know what is...

mkg809

Way too much stuff. Gimme back the 70's. I was much happier back then when I could actually buy some of everything.

helionaut

There have always been "kid friendly" products. Since products began multiplying and escalating in price, the hobby has never been without products at 50 cents or 75 cents or 99 cents or $1.29 or whatever the "entry point" is now. Compared to Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon, though, you don't even need those. However, kids that do collect don't want MVP or Total or 40-Man because they also read Beckett and decide that it's all about the book values and the big pull. Below that, though, is the fact that card collecting is a shrinking hobby. Unless "price" can be divided from "value" the hobby will have a tough time drawing in young people for whom the only indicator of what a good card is is book value. At least with CCGs, cheap cards can be valuable because they are useful in the game. Participation in and attendance of sports is at an all-time high, but that simply hasn't translated into a growing collector base. For every Lebron that comes along and maybe entices some new young collectors, very few continue to collect once the craze has passed. Maybe it's too passive a hobby with the net, videogames, etc. being too distractive. Maybe it's the lack of the big pull and not even being able to complete a set because Mom doesn't like you spending your whole allowance on one 3-card pack that isn't "worth" a quarter of what it cost. Maybe it's that cards are boring unless they are worth a ton. Collecting, building a collection, is something that requires dedication, and that kind of patience is rare in any generation, and the latest one seems to be no exception.

Stone193

Great replies!



<< <i>But a few years when I was buying heavy amouts
of product including those $100 boxes my opinion was as an investment it wasn't worth it all. Just buy the
box and sell what you can to make your money back and some profit. >>


caricon
This sounds like early 90s thinking - I remember the boom and the change occurred fast. The amount of people who started selling in small shows grew as fast as the product could be shipped!

This was one of the problems with the growing pains of all the new companies and escalating print runs.

So, my first observation and thought?

*A hobby can absorb just so much new product and increase in "part-time dealers" as opposed to purely active collectors.

mike

Stone193

<< <i>Once upon a time there were 3 baseball card sets and the presses were rolling at the same speed as the newspaper presses. That rare rookie wasn't the needle in the haystack--it was hay in the haystack. >>

Onlyanumber

This is the "core" of the issue. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Great point.

mike

Stone193

<< <i>Maybe it's that cards are boring unless they are worth a ton. Collecting, building a collection, is something that requires dedication, and that kind of patience is rare in any generation, and the latest one seems to be no exception. >>

Helio

Great point and again, I will be interested to see what happens. Especially with the card industry "promising" to spend more money on advertising and promotions this year.

We'll see how relevant the game of baseball is with respect to the cards produced when they start pumping some special product into the game? I'm referring to the "promotional" stuff at ballgames.

I agree, collecting is very passive and takes a certain type of personality - this is what I meant by that "ship has sailed" - we'll see what kind of year it will be.

thanx
mike

ctsoxfan

<< <i>In 2004, there were 253 product releases.

In 2005, there were 197.

It's anticipated that there will be 126 for 2006.
>>



Nice thread idea, Mike! First of all, 126 is still too many new products for 2006. Each major sport (baseball, football, basketball) should have an entry level set, a mid level set, and a high end set - maybe a late season baseball update set. That's it. Established lines like Bowman Chrome, SP Authentic, and Playoff Contenders would be even more desirable if this were the case, and when you had a hot rookie or two emerge, the box and case prices would surely rise much quicker - allowing dealers to make money.

There is too much product available, and too many people selling it (Ebay makes everyone a card dealer) - but I don't know if the card companies would make the real changes necessary to breathe life back into the modern card market. What they did this year is a step in the right direction, but a just a baby step.

Stone193

<< <i>Way too much stuff. Gimme back the 70's. I was much happier back then when I could actually buy some of everything. >>

mkg

I hear ya. I had a friend who would scour the countryside looking for things to collect. He was into PCs, food issues, turn of the century and early baseball stuff.

If you go back to the days of Lionel Carter, Jefferson Burdick e.g. - they're "approach" to a hobby was way different than it is today.

So another possible key thought:

*Has the hobby mindset changed forever? That is, they assigned "some" value just to keep the stuff moving into people hands when a trade wasn't available. I don't think they ever thought of funding a vacation home?

mike

Stone193

<< <i>

<< <i>In 2004, there were 253 product releases.

In 2005, there were 197.

It's anticipated that there will be 126 for 2006.
>>



Nice thread idea, Mike! First of all, 126 is still too many new products for 2006. Each major sport (baseball, football, basketball) should have an entry level set, a mid level set, and a high end set - maybe a late season baseball update set. That's it. Established lines like Bowman Chrome, SP Authentic, and Playoff Contenders would be even more desirable if this were the case, and when you had a hot rookie or two emerge, the box and case prices would surely rise much quicker - allowing dealers to make money.

There is too much product available, and too many people selling it (Ebay makes everyone a card dealer) - but I don't know if the card companies would make the real changes necessary to breathe life back into the modern card market. What they did this year is a step in the right direction, but a just a baby step. >>


First, thanx Jerry.

You make some great points but I think it's important to see these companies from a "business model" point of view and what they are trying to fix.

Just imagine trying to ask all the auto companies to do the same? There's an area that could use some adjustment also. And "they" are doing a nice job of 'coaxing' people into thinking they can't live without a new and 'better' car?

But, I'm with you - it's a nice step in the right direction. Don't forget - not just the decrease in product - what else is important - the PROMOTION of product this year - bring NEW blood into the hobby - the KIDS.

mike

Stone193

<< <i>There have always been "kid friendly" products >>


Helio
Great point that is often overlooked or avoided by the naysayers.

As was mentioned, the base brand may not "fix" the problem.

mike

ctsoxfan

You are right about keeping the kids involved - I would imagine that if none of us collected as kids, we probably wouldn't be interested in the hobby today. Part of this can be addressed by making affordable products that appeal to both kids and adults. Right now, the entry level card lines don't always appeal to adults (Bazooka is the example I was thinking of). So, kids don't want to be seen as buying the "cheap stuff", and they might wait and spend $100+ on a box of SP Authentic. Of course, what often happens next? They rip the box, and find the best card inside is a Zarko Cabarkapa autograph worth fifty cents - and they get discouraged. We are conditioning the next generation of collectors to look for valuable cards right out of the box, whereas when we were kids, I don't recall cards being worth much of anything. I just enjoyed sorting them, finding my favorite players, and trading them with my friends. We may never be able to get kids to look at cards that way again, and that is a problem that not even the card companies can fix.

Stone193

<< <i> We may never be able to get kids to look at cards that way again, and that is a problem that not even the card companies can fix. >>


Welcome Mr Soxfan

I hope you enjoy your hobby voyage and all future voyages.

There will be plenty of activities for your enjoyment and I hope you have a great time getting to know the passengers that are accompanying you.

Good luck and Godbless
This is the Captain
SS Titanic

ctsoxfan

I certainly hope I am wrong, Mike - I would hate to see kids not embrace this hobby like we did. But, the competition for their attention is much greater today as well - video games, computers, whatever that YuGiOh stuff is, etc.

I was at a show yesterday, and I did see a few parents with their kids browsing the aisles. Hopefully, that was a good sign.

schr1st

I'm more for a "self-correcting market" than MLB properties directly cutting companies out of the equation, but I don't get to make those kinds of decisions. I do think that MLB properties got rid of the wrong company though, since Upper Deck is the one with the forged cut signature cards, poor redemption process, and inadequate customer service practices.

Stone193

<< <i>

I certainly hope I am wrong, Mike - I would hate to see kids not embrace this hobby like we did. But, the competition for their attention is much greater today as well - video games, computers, whatever that YuGiOh stuff is, etc.

I was at a show yesterday, and I did see a few parents with their kids browsing the aisles. Hopefully, that was a good sign. >>


Jerry
I'm outta here. It's a beautiful day in San Antonio - unseasonably cool!

But the responses for a Sunday have been great.

Of course we are just joking about the "titanic" - but it may be the metaphor that rings true in a way.

Another key thought:

*The hobby went thru a major change in the late 80s - and the early 90s boomed - 1 Billion in card sales in the first few years of the decade - having said that - NOW - the hobby is experiencing a correction that will forever change the landscape. Ya can't go back to the 70s and we will never see anything like 1992 again?

mike

Tedw9

I'm a kid of the70's who grew up being excited every time Dad brought me home a few packs of cards. I remember ripping them open, seperating them out by team and putting them in rubber bands. Then when I was done with that, I had an old duffle bag I would put everything in. Ah yes, the good old days!

I must admit, when I see a kid looking at sports cards now aday, I am shocked. They seem to be into Magic the Gathering, Pokemon and things like that. I think this "hobby" has become too price guide/investment driven with the new products. The last time I remember trying to put together a set was the 91 Topps set, both my Dad and I were trying to build that set. (I lost track of what I did with mine, I think I will go by another for old times sakes.)

I'm worried that there are not enough kids comming into our hobby to keep it afloat. Only time will tell. I still give away cards to kids when I find one who is interested in collecting. If it helps their interest in the hobby, thats great! But even the kids are looking to make a buck it seems. A couple of years ago, on another board, a kid posted asking for cards to send TTM. So I sent him a box of 500 different cards, different years and such. He emailed me asking me who these guys were, he had never heard of the guys I sent him and that he only wanted Griffey's and Jeters! So much for trying to help a kid out.

In another post, someone mentioned the amount of products out there. These stats are according to the April 06 Tuff Stuff.

In 1990, there were a total of 24 sets released for baseball, basketball, football AND hockey!

By 1995 that number had increased to 111.

By 2000, that had climbed to 210 products.

There were 242 products offered in 2004!

MLB has limited Topps and UD to 20 card sets EACH for a total of 40 sets, down from more than 80 in 2004.

UD is the only company licensed to make hockey cards with a max of 20 sets.

I'm thrilled to have less to choose from. I used to get discouraged trying to buy a pack, because there were just way too many to choose from. Now I can go and not be overwhelmed by too many products. Is this the "cure", I hope so. I think it is a step in the right direction. I just hope it's not too late.

brian26

<< <i>MLB has limited Topps and UD to 20 card sets EACH for a total of 40 sets, down from more than 80 in 2004.
>>



Do we know what these 20 sets from Topps and 20 sets from UD will be?

fiveniner

I guess Im Very Old school.I do not like the path the Hobby has taken in the last several years Post mid 80s.Its become too much about money than enjoyment.The enjoyment of owning the cards was my sole reason for being in the hobby not their monetary value.
Unfortunatley too many issues are out there that cater to the big time spender that doesnt even know a damn thing about collecting except that the person has to have this card because they think they are going to get rich on these cards only to find out down the line that what they own is nothing ut a piece of cardboard that no one is going to pay what the seller may think that it is worth.
I still buy some modern issues as the Heritage and the Archives only because they remind me of cards when card collecting was considered a Hobby and not Big Buisness.
I know that I am probably in the minority who feels this way but I am being honest and telling it the way it is whether anyone out there likes my opinion or not.To each his own!!!

Stone193

<< <i>but I am being honest and telling it the way it is whether anyone out there likes my opinion or not.To each his own!!! >>


Don't worry fiveniner,

there hasn't been a beheading in a long time!