What happened to my 1883-O Morgan? Unlevel Dies? Occluded Gas? VAM? - UPDATED 6/3/2006

nesvt

Picked this up yesterday. What happened to the reverse?

On the left wreath... the area to the left is sunk in; on the right, it's very raised. The field around IN GOD is similar. Also has multiple clashes, doubling on cotton bolls and leaves.

The VAM book talks about occluded gas in a planchet and unlevel dies. Does it look like either of those?

reverse1
reverse2

Peaceman

wow.. dont know but it's cool looking....

VamGuy

The two vertical bars under n of In are the results of die clash, as are the curved marks at the top of the right wreath.

The characteristics in the other images appear to be due a VERY severely erroded die.

nesvt

Yeah, I understand the clashing. I was hoping for a letter transfer, but didn't find anything. I'm not clear on the sunken and raised areas. The die does look worn... but how would that explain how one side is sunk and the other raised? I thought any erosion would result in raised areas only.

nesvt

Good morning!

Wolf359

Die erosion. I sent something even wierder looking to Leroy where it looked pitted on both
sides of the eagles wing's. Came back as New Orlean coins were stronger struck in center so erosion
starts there and moves out.

MikeInFL

It looks very similar to die sinking I've seen on large cents...Mike

nesvt

Thanks for the replies. I trust all of your judgements over my own, but I still don't get this. The area to the left of the wreath is 2 or 3mm into the coin. It's sunk in. How does this happen with die erosion?

All I can think of... the die is eroded and more metal flows into the eroded sections. Not enough is left to flow into the other areas, and it leaves them recessed on the coin. If this happened, I would think the wreath details would look wacked.

1921obsession

I'm no expert, but wouldn't die erosion result in raised surfaces on the coin? Further, I would think erosion should be more irregular than the rather clean immediate vicinity of the wreath on the "lower" side of Norm's coin.

messydesk

Could this be an improperly annealed die that caved in a little as a result of both erosion and the clash?

Conder101

Any chance it is from a die created by an eroded HUB? Erosion on a hub would cause raised areas on the die and a sunken area on the coin.

And it can't be sunk 2 - 3 mm. That would be most of the way through the coin.

nesvt

I was checking the VAM updates. Does anyone have images of the 83-O 1C? I can't find any images... just the description.

1C III21 · C3a (Buffed Reverse) (181) I-3 R-6
Reverse C3a– Letters of In God We Trust and UNITED STATES plus left wreath have raised and depressed areas around them due to heavy buffing of die. Apparently this was an attempt to remove strong die clash marks.

Any chance this is my coin?

RVDavis

I don't have a coin, but that is one strange coin.