Safe Deposit Boxes - Not quite as safe as you think.

VamGuy

So, although I have an extremely good safe & alarm system, I decided to open a safe deposit box at the bank yesterday. For those who also have one, I'll strongly urge you to take a moment and read the "safebox regulations" paperwork you received.

In part, mine reads like this:

Important Notice: (1) Any claims of loss or damage may not exceed $10,000 as more thoroughly described below...


And then it really gets interesting:

BANK SHALL HAVE NO LIABILITY WHATSOEVER FOR ANY LOST MONEY, COIN OR CURRENCY.


8. The box is leased solely for the purpose of keeping securities, jewelry, valuable personal papers and precious non-currency metals, and the Renter agrees not to use the box to store money, coin, or currency or to store any property of a liquid, corrosive, pressurized....

In a nutshell, should the unexpected happen, your safely stored coins are not exactly "safe".

Longacre

Do they provide a definition section, in particular for coin, currency, and precious non-currency metals?

30AnvZ28

So the honestly, the safest place for your coins is burried in your back yard is what this world is coming to. Im scared to keep them in the room (I have about 20K worth of coins and live in the barracks... yeah not smart) and planned on getting a saftey deposit box here in the next month or so... but damn.

cladking

This is not of particular concern to me. Of much more concern is their ability to restrict access
if they deem that conditions warrant it. It's possible that they simply wouldn't let you get to
your box in a crisis of some sort. One just has to hope that any such situation wouldm't last
long.

cladking

<< <i>So the honestly, the safest place for your coins is burried in your back yard is what this world is coming to. Im scared to keep them in the room (I have about 20K worth of coins and live in the barracks... yeah not smart) and planned on getting a saftey deposit box here in the next month or so... but damn. >>



I'd do it now.

It takes only a few minutes and you can put stuff in immediately.

itsnotjustme

I have collectibles....

Funny, I went to enter my box for the first time in 20 moinths yesterday. It would not open! We spent 30 minutes jiggling keys before the bank agreed to call a technician to drill it. I went back today, and a different employee got it to open. We replaced the locks, and I'm good to go.

Russellhome

You can store jewelry, but not coins? What sense does that make? It sounds like discrimination to me.

What we keep in our safe deposit box is a secret -- even to me. It's been in there so long, I've forgotten what it contains.

VamGuy

No, but the more I read, the worse it gets...

3. The bank shall exercise ordinay care to guard the box but beyond this shall not be liable or responsible for and does not make any representations or warranties regarding the safety of the contents of any box. The loss or alleged loss of the contents of a box or any part thereof shall not be evidence that the box has been opened by other than the Renter or Renter's authorized agent. IF THE RENTER DESIRES INSURANCE PROTECTION FOR THE CONTENTS OF THE BOX, IT IS SUGGESTED THAT THE RENTER CONTACT AN INSURANCE COMPANY. NO INSURANCE IS PROVIDED ON RENTER'S BOX CONTENTS BY THE BANK AND THE BOX CONTENTS ARE NOT INSURED BY THE FDIC. BANK SHALL HAVE NO LIABILITY WHATSOEVER FOR ANY LOST MONEY, COIN OR CURRENCY. RENTER AGREES AND REPRESENTS THAT THE REPLACEMENT OR LOSS VALUE OF THE CONTENTS OF THE BOX SHALL AT NO TIME DURING THE LEASE EXCEED $10,000.

8. The box is leased solely for the purpose of keeping securities, jewelry, valuable personal papers and precious non-currency metals, and the Renter agrees not to use the box to store money, coin, or currency or to store any property of a liquid, corrosive, pressurized, hazardous, explosive, dangerous, illegal, perishable, and/or offensive nature, including but not limited to any firearm, weapon, acid, illegal drug, contraband or evidence of any crime...

...Bank may hold or turn over to any law enforcement or other governmental agency any object, substance or material which Bank believes, in its sole discretion, to be prohibited by this regulation and shall bear no liability for doing so, even if it later discovered that such object, substance or material was not prohibited by this regulation.


So, you can't keep coins or guns in the box. And if any bank employee even suspects you have a coin or gun in the box, they can turn it over to the feds.

Yeah, sign me up for this bull$h!t.

Prethen

I'll keep most of my stuff in a safe deposit box, thank you very much. Anything kept at home, even in a safe is under a much greater risk of catastrophic damage or burglary/robbery. Even worse, if you have a safe at home, don't place too much in there and/or let anyone on the planet know you have anything precious in your house, unless you live alone. There's been one too many stories about home invasions where a family is held hostage until a safe is opened.

I'm curious to know if a bank really gives a damn if you have coins in the box. I sort of doubt it. I've never heard any rumblings ever, in any medium in this regard. Someone would have to go to extraordinary lengths to break into a safe deposit box. My bank even has a new rule that doesn't allow anyone other than someone on the box registration to go in the vault OR a private room (to look at your stuff). They used to let others sign in with you. They started doing this when someone was put under duress to enter their box with them present and they ripped them off of everything they had. The bank could essentially be help harmless for this.

IrishMike

Good grief take a chill pill. The bank has no idea what you put in your safety deposit box. As long as you make the payment on it every year and until you die only those identified on the access card will ever see what is their or gain entrance to it. The bank doesn't even have a key to it. Take out the mortgage document on your house and read it that should really make you go ballistic.

30AnvZ28

From what I understand, your the only one with a key... and the bank must have a written form filled out and signed by you to even have permission to drill the box. I wonder the truth for this.

IrishMike

No the bank can drill the box for nonpayment without permission from anyone.

UncleWiggly

<< <i>Good grief take a chill pill. The bank has no idea what you put in your safety deposit box. As long as you make the payment on it every year and until you die only those identified on the access card will ever see what is their or gain entrance to it. The bank doesn't even have a key to it. Take out the mortgage document on your house and read it that should really make you go ballistic. >>




Exaxctly! And not only that, I couldn't care less what the bank says. But, I DO CARE what Hugh Woods says!



Jerry

30AnvZ28

<< <i>No the bank can drill the box for nonpayment without permission from anyone. >>



What about if you are making payments?? Can they legally drill the box?

ms70

Buy insurance.

IrishMike

<< <i>

<< <i>No the bank can drill the box for nonpayment without permission from anyone. >>



What about if you are making payments?? Can they legally drill the box? >>



Only if someone got a court order, ordering them to do it. Of course laws may vary from state to state. Even when we drill one there has to be two employees there and a full inventory done and signed for by two people. Back in the 80's we had to drill one and there was over 35K in copper and gold coins in the box. I eventually located the owner. Another time there were some generic worn Morgans which escheated to the state of Indiana.

MORGANHUNTER2

<<From what I understand, your the only one with a key... and the bank must have a written form filled out and signed by you to even have permission to drill the box. I wonder the truth for this.>>


Uh no this is wrong- the bank does have a key- due to the reasons stated above- if they have a ssuspicion of any item being bad- they will turn over to the feds the key to your box- with appropriate warrant in hand and remove said box, then they will contact you to come on down for a chat.

I as an idiot did this 18 yrs ago, had 3 sweet colt .45's in box- all WW2 weapons, but no ammo, they popped the box 2 days after I had purchased the 3rd gun, bank guy saw the gun box that I carried to the vault, he reported to the bank Pres, who in turn notified the FBI- once they had opened the safe and checked the serials, found them to be legal, they called me down, I spent 2 frigging hours with the feds, asked if I was under arrest- they said no, but we wanted to know why u had the guns- and being the nice polite bastige that I am- said it was none of their friggin business= took my guns, told the bank dic and the feds- y'all will hear from my attorney.

We filed claim against both for invasion of privacy- feds got to walk, but the bank didn't- the ponied up 12K for that screw up.

I sold the guns 4 yrs later for a hefty sum of moola.


Screw the banks and the safety depo boxes.

If ya want my stash- come hither and play search and find!

I still have just one weapon left in my aresenal- you guess if you can out run it...Superman..

IrishMike

The bank absolutely does not have a key to your lock box. Don't know where you got that idea. Imagine the liability if you claimed something was stolen. Edited to add of course I have only been a banker since 1971.

30AnvZ28

<< <i><<

If ya want my stash- come hither and play search and find!

>>



Thats my thought.

kranky

I just moved to a different bank and here's what my agreement says.

Prohibited items include noxious, explosive, flammable, perishable or other items that may create a nuisance or health hazard, weapons, and cash.
The bank will make no attempt to gain knowledge of the contents.
The bank will not retain any renter keys.
The bank's liability is limited to loss caused by neglect to exercise ordinary care and diligence to prevent access by unauthorized people.
The bank is not liable for any damage caused by acts of nature or occurrences beyond the bank's reasonable control.

I can live with that.

Bear

I keep my coins in the hollow of an old oak tree.

Actually, its the Charter Oak.

oreville

bEAR:

lol.

CoinHusker

Then there's always hiding in plain sight?

Frankcoins

It's still the safest place for coins. Insurance from the ANA is very economical.

pontiacinf

<< <i>It's still the safest place for coins. Insurance from the ANA is very economical. >>



even that policy has its pitfalls, read policys carefully.

as for SDB's, I wouldnt bother, im fine with my concealment skills and like having things "where I can control access"

GullibleNewb

I use a safe deposit box at a major bank in a Minneapolis suburb. The bank is one block away from the police station, and just a few blocks from the fire station. When I opened the box, they somehow misplaced the paperwork, and forgot to bill me for about a month. My yearly renewal is coming up, and I recently asked when I would receive notice that payment would be extracted from my checking account. In part I was nervous they would overlook me somehow, then seize my box for non-payment. The gal I asked laughed and said that scenario was a drastic last resort, and total pain in the butt for them. She said they go to great lengths to find the owners and get things settled to avoid having to get the locks drilled. They do NOT have copies of the keys.

Until the day I can afford a large hidden fire safe, they will stay in the safe deposit box.

TomB

I don't know why these limitations should be a surprise to anyone. After all, the bank doesn't know what you have in the box. You should have insurance on your coinage if you keep it in a safe deposit box, that is the wise thing to do.

carl

An interesting item is if you check you'll find that different banks have different policies, rules, regulations, etc. Also, as to a bank being close to a police station, I still remember that a police station in my old neighborhood was robbed. A parking lot a few blocks from here had cars stripped in the parking lot next door to the police station. I don't think the proximity of closeness of the law enforcement building has anything to do with bank safety. In this area we are surrounded by banks and most have safe deposit boxes. I was using one and had to transfer to another banks safe deposite box due to the incredible methods I encountered to access that dumb thing. It was located in a special basement of the bank, with a steel door access to the stairs to get their. I had to go sign in at a desk, take a seat while they checked me out, then had a guard take me down there. Once there, there was another steel door where the guard had to insert a card into a reader to open that door. I figured that if I went there early in the morning I would possibly get back out by dinner time so I moved to a normal bank.
As to what you can put into a box, it depends on the bank. I checked with my present one and they said anything you want. We don't spy on what you put in there so what difference does it make what someone here tells you or what you read. I never did read all the stuff they gave me when I opened rented that box and I probably never will. From the way this place is built, if a crook gets to my box, he deserves whatever he finds. He would need lots of large equipment and have to use it in the parking lots surrounding the bank.
This all sort of reminds me of the threads not long ago about how banks add humidity to their safe deposit areas. I checked with 3 different banks here and was politely told "you've got to be kidding. Who would pay for that? Why would we hire special people that can tolerate high humidity? Who would pay for special equipment and door seals?" Finally one lady told me to go home and watch TV.

ElmerFusterpuck

I get coins, take pictures, then put them in the safety deposit box. Getting ripped off once (luckily only a handful, but inlcuded a gorgeous MS-66RB 1899 Indian) was more than enough convincing to move my collection. I'll take my chances on the bank boogeyman over a thug house thief anytime.

KoinDawg

I decided to purchase a home/office Theft-Resistant (Not Fire-resistant) Safe through Office Depot. I learned from others on this forum that fire-resistant safes will damage coins due to dampness inside. Besides, most of the fire resistant safes will only withstand ONE HOUR of fire at the most. It holds 1.2 cubic feet of stuff and has electronic key pad and key. Hardware is provided to attach it to the wall or floor. If my place had a fire, oh well. I'm more worried about burglers and don't what to have to go to the bank every week to stash my newest purchases. If purchased a lot of coins the past two months. And yes, it will (must) slow down. Having them locked up at home where I have private, easy access seemed to be my best option. I also understand that if you join ANA you can buy insurance from them just for your coin collection. Normal homeowner's policies don't cover coin collections.

Coinosaurus

<< <i>I'll take my chances on the bank boogeyman over a thug house thief anytime. >>



I'm with Elmer. Bank boxes are surely the best bang for the buck, when it comes to protecting one's collection.

RegistryCoin

<< <i>Text I went back today, and a different employee got it to open. >>


The first few times I went to my box, I watched very carefully how it was opened. In later times, when it became obvious that new(er) or different bank employees hadn't the knowledge to get it open, I asked for their key and did it myself. It seemed that there was not only a "trick" as to how to jiggle the key correctly to get it open, but most employees gave up completely, asking me if I had identified the box number correctly, before I pointed out that they had put the bank's key in the wrong lock!
ps. not to mention "bank teller" is an entry-level position ala "order taker" at your local burger joint, and require as much experience and intelligence, and (as back-up, i guess), they have high-school pre-entry level "students-in-training" that handle duties with no apparent supervision.

oldcameoproofsguy

I keep my coins in a safety deposit box and sleep very well thank you. In fact the few people I have ever told that I collect coins, I also make sure to tell them about my safety deposit box as well so that they don't get any wise ideas.

cladking

<< <i>I keep my coins in a safety deposit box and sleep very well thank you. In fact the few people I have ever told that I collect coins, I also make sure to tell them about my safety deposit box as well so that they don't get any wise ideas. >>



Exactly.

This protects the coins but more importantly protects the people in the house. You
don't want thieves coming in whether you're home or not. If you do get a safe then
tell no one since someone might try to force you to open it.

Coins make attractive targets and at some point you simply have to put some thought
and effort into security.

mozin

A number of CU members have suggested the ANA coin insurance is reasonable. About ten years ago I checked the rates. I found the cost to be much much more expensive than multiple safety deposit boxes.

Anyone have access to the current ANA insurance rates per $10,000 coverage for collections stored in a bank? How about collections stored in a home fire safe?

rmoss

I may be wrong, but I believe the no coin or currency refers to stashes of spendable money, not collectable coins or currency. This prevents getting around paying taxes on money you may have a hard time explaining by stashing it in a SDB. Years ago the bank manager used to let me in his office when I would get the SDB out and liked to look to see what I had new. He was a collector too.

Outhaul

How can any bank be expected to accept liability for any item you place in the safe deposit box when the contents of which are personal and private?

Steve27

"Safe Deposit Boxes - Not quite as safe as you think."

So far I've seen nothing that indicates that Safety Deposit Boxes aren't safe.

DeusExMachina

<< <i>"Safe Deposit Boxes - Not quite as safe as you think."

So far I've seen nothing that indicates that Safety Deposit Boxes aren't safe. >>



I agree. I've been having this debate for awhile and I think I’m going to open one. This thread certainly has not discouraged from doing so.....

topstuf

What about using a PO box?

mrcommem

I was at my bank today and it seems they have no rule about rare coins in safety deposit boxes. To the contrary, they had an advertisement to put coins in their boxes.

howards

Where I bank, the employees by policy are not supposed to know what's in the boxes. When they go into the vault with me, they always turn away when I open my box. I even offered to show one employee some interesting stuff and she said she wasn't allowed to look.

But it is true that my bank will not be responsible if my safety deposit box is ripped off. If you have significant holdings, you need private coin insurance.

howards

<< <i>I decided to purchase a home/office Theft-Resistant (Not Fire-resistant) Safe through Office Depot. I learned from others on this forum that fire-resistant safes will damage coins due to dampness inside. Besides, most of the fire resistant safes will only withstand ONE HOUR of fire at the most. It holds 1.2 cubic feet of stuff and has electronic key pad and key. Hardware is provided to attach it to the wall or floor. If my place had a fire, oh well. I'm more worried about burglers and don't what to have to go to the bank every week to stash my newest purchases. If purchased a lot of coins the past two months. And yes, it will (must) slow down. Having them locked up at home where I have private, easy access seemed to be my best option. I also understand that if you join ANA you can buy insurance from them just for your coin collection. Normal homeowner's policies don't cover coin collections. >>



You said you are most worried about burglars. A home safe doesn't provide much protection against a burglar who has a gun to your wife's head demanding you open the safe.

The safe you bought should be firmly attached to a wall or floor. Otherwise, the safe you bought is rather small and burglars will simply cart it off and open it at their leisure.

We all may have coins at home from time to time such as new purchases, and a home safe for them is a good idea. But I think a safety deposit box is your best and safest bet for routine storage of your collection if you have anything of significant value.