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Ugly Bonds?
downgoesfrazier
Posts: 1,515 ✭✭
Forgetting for just a moment what he may or may not have done in regards to performance enhancing drugs, I really think he is one of the ugliest looking players of prominence I've ever seen. I'm not talking about physical appearance here. I'm talking movement. A player like Ichiro is so awesome to watch. Chipper Jones is so smooth. Even an out-of-shape Manny Ramirez is colorful and owns baseballs finest RH swing. Bonds is so unappealing to watch.
It wasn't always that way. I thought he was electric with Pittsburgh and even early on with the Giants. Who do you guys like to watch & why? Who DON'T you like and why?
dgf
It wasn't always that way. I thought he was electric with Pittsburgh and even early on with the Giants. Who do you guys like to watch & why? Who DON'T you like and why?
dgf
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he and barry should have adjoining cooperstown plaques.
Julen
RIP GURU
When Bonds broke the single season HR record the Giants released a commercial with all 73 HR swings compressed down to a 30-second commercial. It was truly amazing to watch nearly every swing exactly the same.
Steroids or no, the man is a machine at bat.
Other players with graceful moves... Pedro Martinez, John Olerud, Derek Jeter, and Ken Griffey.
Players with awkward moves... Mike Piazza looks like he's swinging a lead bat up there... Tim Hudson throws like his joints are as rusty as the Tin Man's... Gary Sheffield has a lot of hate for the ball in his swing... Craig Biggio has also never been one for style on the field.
Mickey Rivers ran like his feet had shards of glass in them. It pained me to watch that guy run from first to third.
I was never one for Joe Morgan's batting stance with the twitch going. Or for that matter Chuck Knoblaughs.
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
Jeff
Larry Walker,Will Clark,Rafeal Palmerio, Griffey Jr. , Olerud,Helton Sean Green , Chipper and Berkman ! Notice no right hand hitters?
Phil , Manny is a RBI machine and has a great swing but Paul Molitor probably owend the best right handed swing I have ever seen?
Dave Winfield has to be tops on the ungraceful list? I agree about Piazza and throw in Bagwell?
Say what you want about Bonds I have enjoyed watching him play over the years, doesn't mean I like him but he doesn't owe me anything!
I have heard just about everybodies opinion on Bonds , except the Pope which I hear he is having a press confrence at the Vatican this afternnon to give us his opinion, and I am at the point I don't care anymore? If he did or didn't I couldn't care less . I am actually hoping he takes a drug test and tests negative just so we can put this to bed and move on!
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
Bonds swing is not like Ted Williams'. Not really even a little. If you'd like to believe that it is--far be it from me to rain on your parade. I've heard this before from some of the Dad's that come into my facility. For those who would like an enlightened comparison...
Ted Williams had a fluid trigger to get things started (a gentle rock to the backside and light coiling action of the right knee). Bonds abruptly drops his hands in a violent pumping action while sitting on his backside like a cat ready to "pounce". Williams strides to a perfect balance while maintaining a consistent stack of the rotating components of his swing. Bonds utilizes a violent thump of his stride foot and begins his shoulder tilt early. He maintains decent balance as he is very strong and athletic...Williams would likely have fallen down with Bonds' approach. Bonds does not maintain his stack while he moves his hands forward like Williams--nor does it matter to him as he aims to simply over-power the ball at impact. Williams gets his hips started and allows his shoulders to follow in a natural tilt to allow his hands to flatten through the zone as his body rotates fluidly around his spinal axis. Bonds utilizes his early shoulder tilt to create upward leverage through the ball (a claim Williams made about his own swing that video analysis does not support). Bonds, too, rotates around his spinal axis, but in a fashion that resembles Mo Vaughn more than Ted Williams. No one is confusing Mo with Ted, I don't believe. Bonds posture is so different than Williams through his peak exertyion that comparisons are hard to even understand let alone quantify. Both may look SIMILAR to the untrained eye at impact on certain pitches, but how they got there and where they finish is another matter. Williams was more top-hand oriented (Longer swing) and created more top-spin and thus was more of a dead-pull hitter. Bonds utilizes more lead arm length and a more compact style that leads to more back-spin and greater distance ( the style of the modern hybrid hitter). The style we teach these days is "short to it--long through it". It deals with posture & leverage and later hands (the advent of the splitter (thanks Bruce Sutter) caused this change more than anything. In short, Bonds utilizes larger muscles in generating power. He uses his swing levers quite differently than Williams as he has markedly different tools. Williams relied on his sequence more. He needed his start to be consistent and he needed his timing to be perfect. Bonds sheer mass and strength and quickness is, in fact, a "bolt of lightning", but it comes from a very different place than Williams--namely his arms, tits and ass. The closest living relative to Ted Williams swing is actually John Olerud. Not a SEXY comparison--but an accurate one. Bonds and Williams have nothing in common from a mechanical standpoint. Further, a coach would NEVER EVER teach the swing mechanics of Barry Bonds. His mechanics are not sound. They are simply not structurally sound for a 5'8 165 lb middle infielder--or even a 230lb outfielder without exceptional gifts. He relies on exceptional strength and athleticism to be productive. Ted Williams' methods work well on fastballs. The exceptional hitter can utilize those mechanics on loose sliders or large breaking balls as well. Ted Williams would have trouble hitting .340 in today's game as he did a half-century ago. Now, given his intelligence, if the information we have today were available to him and he were in his prime, he'd likely hit .400 again.
Again,
1. A more likely comparison of Bonds' swing would be Mo Vaughn--not Ted Williams.
2. John Olerud is a more appropriate Williams comparison.
3. Barry Bonds mechanics are not sound and would not translate into success for likely anyone but Barry Bonds.
4. Bonds swing is, indeed, a bolt of lightning. It is just a very short and powerful one that is--like lightning--unpredictable.
Keith, It's funny as I re-read your post, I see you actually mention John Olerud. Great insight...odd how you would have associated Bonds with Williams? Maybe the numbers they put up biased your opinion of his actual swing? Bonds swing is--from a professional hitting instructors opinion--utterly grotesque albeit efficient for him. For the record, I LOVE Craig Biggio. Favorite player. I'm biased as he and I are similarly built and played the same way. I find his "grunt" mentality a style unto itself. I love watching him. I can totally understand why someone wouldn't, however. From the standpoint of pure art he leaves a bit desired. For me, his lack of flair is the art as his type has become so unusual. So much so that you pointed it out.
dgf
<< <i>Dave Winfield has to be tops on the ungraceful list? I agree about Piazza and throw in Bagwell? >>
Winfield, for sure...ditto Baggy!
Molitor? Great DiMaggio-like stroke. Utilized little or no stride and is the suburban white man's choice for certain. No frills, no corn rows, no peeing in the green monster, etc. Seriously, his was compact, but not muscular. Smooth and consistent, he was able to actually improve as he got older and gained knowledge of the pitchers, etc. He had a pure gap-to-gap stroke that gave opposing teams the jitters when he hit as they knew he wouldn't get himself out very often. His style requires a fair amount of upper-body strength, but nothing obscene. Manny Ramirez is the most fluid RH I've ever seen. He utilizes a kick to get started that is hard to teach. Generally, either hitters kick or they don't...you don't TEACH it. I kick when I hit. It requires tremendous balance and sense of timing. Molitor was a soft-stride guy. Others like Sosa are tap guys. I teach the tap to young hitters who have trouble getting their stride foot down on time or keep too much weight on the back leg too long... It is a growing method that gains in popularity each year. Molitor rarely slumped because of his no-frills approach. He was special.
Manny Ramirez is so fast, fluid and furious. THAT is why he's an RBI machine. His mechanics are awesome. He is the best RH hitter I've ever seen. There are others in the team photo of all shapes and sizes including that monster in St. Louis.
dgf
ugliest pitcher, was, that fat tub of goo terry forester.
ugliest runner, pete rose, he looks like a troll from LOTR rounding 3rd base in '71 all star game.
Julen
RIP GURU
In his prime, and still to some extent when healthy, Griffey Jr is pure joy to watch from a visual standpoint. I like watching A-Rod at bat as well, though I have to admit I'm not a big fan of his (too image conscious).
Other things I have enjoyed from visual standpoint:
Will Clark
Bo Jackson
Rickey Henderson leading off first...GONE!
Ichiro throwing home
Griffey Jr patrolling CF
Torii Hunter stealing a HR off the top of the wall
Dennis Eckersley in the 9th inning
Things that make me cringe form a visual standpoint:
Mark McGwire running
Randy Johnson batting (worst...swing...ever)
Adam Dunn playing anywhere in the field
Cecil Fielder running out a triple (although I have to admit that was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in baseball)
Kirk Gibson
MooseDog
(Longtime A's Fan)
Will Clark=Gorgeous.
Rickey is Rickey and always beautiful.
dgf
dgf
<< <i>Mickey Rivers ran like his feet had shards of glass in them. It pained me to watch that guy run from first to third.
>>
actually, if I remember those great days well, Mickey used to JOG around like that. He would jog in and out of the outfield, walk to first base like it was the most painful tasks to do. BUT, when he ran, he ran like the wind and with little effort and grand style
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Scott
T-205 Gold PSA 4 & up
1967 Topps BB PSA 8 & up
1975 Topps BB PSA 9 & up
1959 Topps FB PSA 8 & up
1976 Topps FB PSA 9 & up
1981 Topps FB PSA 10
1976-77 Topps BK PSA 9 & up
1988-89 Fleer BK PSA 10
3,000 Hit Club RC PSA 5 & Up
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1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
On the flip side, who's bat was slower than Otis Nixon's. Since he was a slapper it didn't really matter much--even later in his career, but I swear I could read the label on his bat when he swung it.
dgf
I'm watching the baseball highlights on ESPN and Cecil at the time is playing for the Tigers at old Tiger Stadium. You know how Center Field used to end up in a point 440 feet away from home plate? Well Cecil hits one on the line to dead center and the CF tries to make a diving catch but misses and the ball goes all the way to the wall. Now for just about any human on the planet (well maybe not Sid Bream) this is a stand up inside the park home run, easy.
The RF gets to the ball, looks up and sees he has a play AT THIRD BASE!
Ol' Cecil is chugging around second base, then, probably not having had to run this far in his life, starts to run out of gas and begins to stumble badly, literally staggering all the way from 2B to 3B until finally landing face first in a pseudo head first slide/belly flop, coming to rest about 10 feet short of 3B. Then he realized he hasn't been tagged out yet so he crawls like a beached whale to get his hand on the bag.
Until the day I die, I will not forget Fielder looking up, completely out of breath, a sheepish smile on his dirty face, his helmet partly dislodged on his head, and his own third base coach doubled over in laughter.
There is no way that play was 1/2 as hilarious as your description. Priceless...I read it twice!
Thanks for the laughs!
dgf
Best swing, George Brett after he stopped imitating Yaz's stance(as he is on his rookie card)and started working with Charley Lau.