I have a question about what happened last night with all the $1 auctions
notlogical
Posts: 2,235 ✭
My dad told me about this. I asked him what's the difference in that and finding something for $1 at a garage sale or something? He said I should ask my question here too.
I mean the buyer knows what it's worth from both places. The only difference is that one seller does and one seller doesn't.
So if you buy a coin for $1 from someone who doesn't know what it's worth it's a "great buy"? BUT, If you buy a coin from someone for $1 who knows how much it's worth but sells it anyway your a rat and a thief? I don't get it?
I mean the buyer knows what it's worth from both places. The only difference is that one seller does and one seller doesn't.
So if you buy a coin for $1 from someone who doesn't know what it's worth it's a "great buy"? BUT, If you buy a coin from someone for $1 who knows how much it's worth but sells it anyway your a rat and a thief? I don't get it?
What Mr. Spock would say about numismatics...
... "Fascinating, but not logical"
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
... "Fascinating, but not logical""Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
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Comments
<< <i>My dad told me about this. I asked him what's the difference in that and finding something for $1 at a garage sale or something? He said I should ask my question here too.
I mean the buyer knows what it's worth from both places. The only difference is that one seller does and one seller doesn't.
So if you buy a coin for $1 from someone who doesn't know what it's worth it's a "great buy"? BUT, If you buy a coin from someone for $1 who knows how much it's worth but sells it anyway your a rat and a thief? I don't get it?
It is only a great buy if the buyer is not a dealer. If the owner of a brick and mortar shop bought it for a dollar then he would be hung from the highest yardarms by the posters here. If a collector does it, though, it is a "great buy" and he can't wait to get on here and crow about it.
I agree with you. It is "not logical". (Nor is it right.)
That is *my* thought
-Ben
Edited to add: Please correct me if I am looking at this wrong
"But the buyer knows what it is worth both times. So even if someone is willing to give it to you for $1, isn't it wrong to pay that if you know how much it really is worth?
Isn't that what some people do at coin shops? People bring in coins and the buyer knows what it's worth but only pays what the people ask. I've heard that's wrong too."
In the first case above, it's not wrong, imo.
In the second case, the buyer has the option whether he wants to sell it.
I'll just shut up now
<< <i>
I agree with you. It is "not logical". (Nor is it right.) >>
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
After reading Superior's policy, I hope the members will hold their feet to the fire "even if the Seller has made a mistake." Just a note, I did see some of the items while they were still listed on eBay, but did not bid on them, if I had known of their policy 19, I would have bought every thing I could have. [treat people the way they want to treat others.]
Tim
In the Superior ebay auction case, Superior very obviously made a listing error and never intended to sell the coins for a dollar. It was an honest mistake, and well-intentioned people do not punish others for an honest mistake.
In a garage sale, the seller has not taken the time to determine what the value of the coin (or china, furniture or whatever) is and is selling it on their terms: as is, their price, with no recourse if counterfeit, etc. The seller may freely acknowledge that he does not know the value of the item and is willing to part with the item at their price.
<< <i>
But the buyer knows what it is worth both times. So even if someone is willing to give it to you for $1, isn't it wrong to pay that if you know how much it really is worth?
Isn't that what some people do at coin shops? People bring in coins and the buyer knows what it's worth but only pays what the people ask. I've heard that's wrong too.
What's the difference?
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
<< <i>There is a big difference.
In the Superior ebay auction case, Superior very obviously made a listing error and never intended to sell the coins for a dollar. It was an honest mistake, and well-intentioned people do not punish others for an honest mistake.
In a garage sale, the seller has not taken the time to determine what the value of the coin (or china, furniture or whatever) is and is selling it on their terms: as is, their price, with no recourse if counterfeit, etc. The seller may freely acknowledge that he does not know the value of the item and is willing to part with the item at their price. >>
Couldn't have stated it any better.
<< <i>There is a big difference.
In the Superior ebay auction case, Superior very obviously made a listing error and never intended to sell the coins for a dollar. It was an honest mistake, and well-intentioned people do not punish others for an honest mistake. >>
You make an interesting case. But eBay is a venue with the art of the deal (or steal) built in. Part of the allure is being able to get a steal. They chose the venue and agreed to the user agreement as all of us did. They chose the BIN option, when they had every opportunity to decline that mechanism. And they chose the $1 opening bid.
If they had used the standard, non-BIN auction format with an opening bid of a dollar and nobody bid on it until the last second, would the auction still be valid? Clearly they would have known it was worth more than that. But they chose the venue.
What if they accidentally listed the auction as "coil" instead of "coin", or listed it in automotive instead of the coin category, would the auction still be valid? I think so. But that would have been a mistake, too.
So what makes this mistake invalid?
--Severian the Lame
Having said that, how many times should an outfit be allowed to make the same mistake before they have to eat it?
<< <i>Coin Collectors are supposed to be "Gentlemen" and "Ladies". We play fair and don't take advantage of others mistakes. "Do unto others as you would have them to unto you". >>
You haven't been to very many coin shops, have you.
JMHO
It's wrong. It's dishonest.
Sure, blame the amored security division for not double checking their doors (ie: Superior checking the auction starting prices) but return the cash (coins) and be the better person.
Interesting perspective. To err is human, to forgive divine. Perhaps someday you will end up on the wrong end of a mistake that you made (monetary or otherwise) and see the light.
<< <i>Put the shoe on the other foot-what if it were you that made the mistake?-would you sell it for a $1.00?? i dont think so.
Interesting question that has already been aswered by many board members, of which I am not qualified to know the thoughts or intents of their hearts.
However, it doesn't answer the question asked by notlogical, a YN, whose not only learning about the hobby but business and life. "Do people have the moral responsibility to pay what they know a coin is worth even if it's priced considerably lower than that, be it at a garage sale, coin shop or online auction?"
<< <i>"Do unto others as you would have them to unto you". >>
When it comes to coin dealers, that should be "Do unto others before they do unto you".
Russ, NCNE
Government watchdog rebukes stock exchange, broker over order typo
Associated Press
Updated: 9:22 a.m. ET Dec. 14, 2005
TOKYO - A typo from one of the country’s biggest brokerage firms Friday caused Mizuho Securities Co. to lose at least 27 billion yen ($225 million) on a stock trade.
The trouble began Thursday morning, when Mizuho Securities tried to sell 610,000 shares at 1 yen (less than a penny) apiece when it had actually intended to sell 1 share at 610,000 yen ($5,041).
Worse still, the number of shares in Mizuho’s order was 41 times the number of J-Com’s outstanding shares, but the Tokyo Stock Exchange processed the order anyway.
Mizuho says it tried to cancel the order three times, but the exchange said it doesn’t cancel transactions even if they are executed on erroneous orders.
There are no "do overs" in the real world.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>
<< <i>"Do unto others as you would have them to unto you". >>
When it comes to coin dealers, that should be "Do unto others before they do unto you".
Russ, NCNE >>
This is a sad commentary on the coin game.
Binding contract, what are they going to do kick me off ebay..???
Sue me for 400.00, Lawyer will cost you that much.
Mistake are made, live and let live.
Someday the shoe will be on the other foot.
<< <i>Put the shoe on the other foot-what if it were you that made the mistake?-would you sell it for a $1.00?? i dont think so. >>
Rec78,
It would be up to the bidder, but if he insisted, YES I would honor the auction and sell for $1.00.
Tim
Thier Policy 19 is why I would hold their feet to the fire.
I think the lesson to be learned here is pay attention to details. If superior would have done so, this situation would not have occurred.
Sometimes painful lessons must be learned. I'll bet you anything if superior honors those auctions (and loses lost of $$) this will NEVER happen again.
It's not illegal.
But you know it's wrong. It's not ethical, it's not moral. It ain't right.
If that's the type of person you are...... man that's sad.
hi, i'm tom.
i do not doctor coins like some who post in here.
<< <i>My dad told me about this. I asked him what's the difference in that and finding something for $1 at a garage sale or something? >>
There is no difference to answer your question. Just like if you walk into Staples looking for a new printer, you see one marked $39.90 (with a store sticker) and take it to the cash register, the cleck tells you it is a typo and the price is $399. In my State it is tough, they have to sell it for the sticker price of $39.90.
In your scenario, the person at the garage sale put a price on the items that he wanted, someone was willing to pay - transaction. Superior put a price on the items that they wanted to sell, someone was willing to pay - transaction. A lot of antique dealers make a lot of money buying stuff at garage / yard sales, do you think they go up to the host and tell them that the prices are under valued? Heck no. Or how about the poor smuck that goes to the car dealership, tells the saleperson that that car he wants, and then writes out a check for the sticker prce, do you think the owner of the dealership is going to tell the person that he would sell the car for less money? Heck no.
Again, like I said earlier in this thread, I believe live and let live. I did not bid on any of Superior's actions and didn't want to stick it to them. But after reading Superior's Policy 19, it is obveous that Superior would / is not so forgiven. Because of Superior's own policy, I hope members stick it to them. Then maybe Superior will learn that what goes around, comes around.
Tim
<< <i><< My dad told me about this. I asked him what's the difference in that and finding something for $1 at a garage sale or something? >>
There is no difference to answer your question. >>
Actually, there's a very real difference. In the yard sale scenario the seller marks the item at a value they were willing to accept to sell it. Clearly, Superior was not willing to accept one dollar for coins worth hundreds or thousands. It was a simple pricing error.
Russ, NCNE
Superior is fully aware of the value of the coins they had listed. They just made a simple pricing error.
The guy having the garage sale made a conscious decision to price his item, and is probably not aware of the item's true value.
Now if Superior continues to make this same mistake over and over, should there be consequences? I say yes.
If a coin dealer goes to a garage sale and finds some coins that the owner wants to sell for $1. regardless if it is a wheat cent, a 1916-D mercury dime or a gold coin, great buy for the coin dealer.
If however, Joe Public walks into his Coin Establishment and shows him the very same coins above, I believe that it is the coin dealers responsibility to offer Joe Public a fair price to purchase the coins.
Discuss.
Joe.
Why shouldn't it go the other way? They expect the bidder to hold up their end of the contract, whether it was a mistake or not. They should do the same as a "professional" company.
My view on it is Superior needs to suck it up and sell the coins. Maybe they should be a bit more careful in listing their items. Tough luck.
Positive BST: WhiteThunder (x2), Ajaan, onefasttalon, mirabela, Wizard1, cucamongacoin, mccardguy1
Negative BST: NONE!
<< <i>
<< <i>"Do unto others as you would have them to unto you". >>
When it comes to coin dealers, that should be "Do unto others before they do unto you".
Russ, NCNE >>
I'd give you the world, just because...
Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
<< <i>If a bidder makes a mistake, Superior would nail them for it.
Why shouldn't it go the other way? They expect the bidder to hold up their end of the contract, whether it was a mistake or not. They should do the same as a "professional" company. >>
Two wrongs do not make a right. The fact that Superior has a particular provision in their TOS does not ameliorate the unethical behavior of the other party in the transaction.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Does anybody know what eBay's policy is regarding BIN's that are listed in error? I have looked all over their help section and I can't find anything that deals with this topic. >>
It's no different than their policy on a regular auction. It's considered a contract. That said, from an enforcement standpoint the "contract" isn't worth the bytes it's written in.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Does anybody know what eBay's policy is regarding BIN's that are listed in error? I have looked all over their help section and I can't find anything that deals with this topic. >>
It's no different than their policy on a regular auction. It's considered a contract. That said, from an enforcement standpoint the "contract" isn't worth the bytes it's written in.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, eBay policies trumps Superior's. So what's the point in Superior posting their own auction rules?
edited to add an 'L' to turn 'taking' into 'talking'
<< <i>
Two wrongs do not make a right.
Russ, NCNE >>
Although that may be true the only wrong I'm seeing is Superior not honoring the auction.
Positive BST: WhiteThunder (x2), Ajaan, onefasttalon, mirabela, Wizard1, cucamongacoin, mccardguy1
Negative BST: NONE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
Two wrongs do not make a right.
Russ, NCNE >>
Although that may be true the only wrong I'm seeing is Superior not honoring the auction. >>
I hope for your sake that you are a young person and as you grow older and wiser you would see the error in your thinking, because someone else does something wrong or something similar or something you don't like doesn't give you the right to take advantage of them because of an error of this type. It makes you as guilty as they. As was said two wrongs don't make a right.
Comments like this remind me of my stepson when he was young, all the other kids parents bought them one or allowed them to do it. Ethical behavior is not taking advantage of a situation no matter how you want to cut it.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
I've bid on items with a buyout of 1.00. I sure didnt expect to get that item.
If I add an extra 0 sniping, I sure as hell won't pay a ridiculous price for an item.
If someone else adds an extra 0 to an item, I sure wont hold them accountable.
You may think I'm illogical, I may think you're illogical. I do what I feel is right, to hell with ebay if I get booted or a neg because of it.
It would be interesting to follow the discussion if they did.
Ron
<< <i>
<< <i> It's no different than their policy on a regular auction. It's considered a contract. That said, from an enforcement standpoint the "contract" isn't worth the bytes it's written in.
Russ, NCNE >>
Really? What makes you so sure the contract wouldn't be enforced? I don't think the law on unilateral mistake is that great for sellers anymore.
<< <i>Well, my friends, let's use this as an example.... Circuit City makes a pricing error on a Bose Wave system, and has it priced at $10.00....you bring one up to the register, the cashier rings it in, and BOOM, $10.00!!!! What do you do next...... A) Fill up a cart full of Bose Wave systems....or.....
Well, if I'm the manager, I might fire the cashier for not calling a manager to the checkout as soon as he/she saw this was clearly wrong.
When I was in college, I worked at a drug store. At one point we had a sale on a certain type of wine, selling at "2 for $10.00". One of my colleagues mispriced them as "2 for $1.00" instead. Sure enough, someone came to the checkout with something like 20 bottles of mispriced wine. To the cashier's credit, as soon as she saw the price marked on the wine (keep in mind this was 20 years ago before they all had barcode scanners), she called for a manager. The manager okayed that sale at 50 cents a bottle and immediately had everyone on the sales floor correct the remaining price tags.
That was the manager's discretion, but had he found out the cashier didn't question the price or the sale, I doubt he would have been pleased.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>Petarded, could I please have your eBay handle? I'd like to block you. >>
Jcarney,
you want to block Petarded because he has a different viewpoint then you on last nights Superior auctions? Talk about being childest, this reminds me "of the proverbial five year old, “If I can’t have my way I’m going to take my toys and go home." I wish you would provide your eBay handle, with your attitude I'm not sure if I want to bid on any of your auctions (There is no need to block me, I will do it myself).
Tim
<< <i>Ziggy...you hit the nail on the head....lets all remember that once a price has been made to a consumer, THAT STORE HAS TO HONOR IT. >>
They don't HAVE to "honor it." The transaction isn't completed until the merchandise and the payment exchange hands.
A retail establishment needs to assess the immediate cost to the business of honoring that mistaken transaction versus the future cost (in lost sales and profits) of potentially losing that customer, and possibly others due to word of mouth. In the example I gave, the manager decided it wasn't worth the lost goodwill and perhaps losing a customer over a $90 loss.
In Superior's case, there were tens of thousands of dollars on the line. Plus, how many of the people who bid on these $1 mistakes were regular Superior customers and how many were just "one time customers" looking for a rip?
In a business case, that's what managers have to decide. If an established "whale" customer of yours stumbled onto a $200 coin listed for a buck, maybe you sell it to them for a buck -- protecting the HUGE amount of future sales likely from that customer. But if it's someone they've never done business with before, and probably someone just looking for a "rip" -- what makes them think they'll get repeat business at regular prices to justify eating the loss?
I think it's a sad commentary on ethics when anyone -- whether a buyer or a seller, whether a dealer or a collector -- tries to rip off another trading partner as a result of an OBVIOUS mistake, whether accidentally using a $1 BIN instead of a $1 starting bid, or because a buyer accidentally added another '0' or forgot the decimal point in their bid.