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Update on the 1950s UNC GEM Lincoln hoard**
BigBen
Posts: 329
Some of you already know this info but for those who don't, I recently ran into a dealer in my area who was selling some original 1950s P & D Mint UNC rolls. I bought a roll of 1954 P and took it home and opened it up and holy cow! Bright red gems everywhere! I'm not an experienced Lincoln grader but I looked at them and knew I found something significant. I immediately called the dealer and told him to hold all of the 50s P mint rolls for me and picked up the rest the next day. I also picked up a single roll of 1951-D, 2 rolls of 1952-D, 2 rolls of 1957-D, and a single roll of 1958 P. Of the P Mints, I got 2 of each 1950, 51, 53, 55, 56, and 1957. He had 3 rolls of 1954, of which one I had already bought, and I bought the rest of those.
To make a long story short, the 1954, 55, 56, 57, and 57-D rolls were astounding in the number of gems they contained. I was very overwhelmed by what I had found after hearing the stories of the tough 1950s P mints in higher grades, and after posting messages here on the board and getting numerous responses, Wayne Herndon (Wayne Herndon Rare Coins) kindly offered to look at some at the Baltimore show. I brought in a sample of some of the better coins from various dates and after looking at them, he agreed that I had found something rather significant and invited me back to the show the next day to show him the rest of the best coins. This resulted in a bulk submission to NGC of 151 coins that he felt were MS-65PQ to MS-67. He felt that at least a couple of the coins were PCGS 67, and as many as 15 to 20 could be NGC 67, including some of the 1954 P mint Lincolns!
On top of this, I have about 100 MS-64 and MS-65 RED 1954-P's that Wayne looked at and graded, as well as 100s of other dates that he graded MS-65 RED and below. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I will get one or more NGC 1954 MS-67's, as Wayne feels that several of the coins are 67s. Out of 3 rolls of 1954 P, Wayne graded 29 as MS-65PQ to MS-67, 26 MS-65 Reds, 55 MS-64 REDS, 1 MS-64RB, and the rest MS-62 to 63 REDS. I still have about 10-20 more 54 P's that I feel are MS-64 and MS-65, based on Wayne's grading standards. That's roughly 120-130 near gem and gem coins out of THREE rolls! The years I didn't do so well were 1950, 51, and 53. 53 was especially bad, with only one that Wayne felt could make 66 in PCGS or NGC. He pulled 3 66s in 1950 and 4 66s in 1951, but that is still not too shabby for just 2 rolls of each year! He graded 32 of 51s at MS-65, and just 2 1950s at 65. The rest were 64PQs and below. I did much better on the 55, 56, 57, 57-D, and 58s, with the breakdown as follows:
1955- 22 MS-65PQ to MS-67 (out of 2 rolls)
1956- 27 MS-65PQ to MS-67 (out of 2 rolls)
1957- 27 MS-65PQ to MS-67 (out of 2 rolls)
1957-D- 21 MS-65PQ to MS-67 (out of 2 rolls)
1958- 9 MS-65PQ to MS-67 (out of 1 roll)
So all in all I think I got lucky
I will keep one of 67s and one of each year in 66 as a keep sake while the rest of the high grades in this initial batch will be consigned through Wayne to sell.
Cheers!
BigBen
To make a long story short, the 1954, 55, 56, 57, and 57-D rolls were astounding in the number of gems they contained. I was very overwhelmed by what I had found after hearing the stories of the tough 1950s P mints in higher grades, and after posting messages here on the board and getting numerous responses, Wayne Herndon (Wayne Herndon Rare Coins) kindly offered to look at some at the Baltimore show. I brought in a sample of some of the better coins from various dates and after looking at them, he agreed that I had found something rather significant and invited me back to the show the next day to show him the rest of the best coins. This resulted in a bulk submission to NGC of 151 coins that he felt were MS-65PQ to MS-67. He felt that at least a couple of the coins were PCGS 67, and as many as 15 to 20 could be NGC 67, including some of the 1954 P mint Lincolns!
On top of this, I have about 100 MS-64 and MS-65 RED 1954-P's that Wayne looked at and graded, as well as 100s of other dates that he graded MS-65 RED and below. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I will get one or more NGC 1954 MS-67's, as Wayne feels that several of the coins are 67s. Out of 3 rolls of 1954 P, Wayne graded 29 as MS-65PQ to MS-67, 26 MS-65 Reds, 55 MS-64 REDS, 1 MS-64RB, and the rest MS-62 to 63 REDS. I still have about 10-20 more 54 P's that I feel are MS-64 and MS-65, based on Wayne's grading standards. That's roughly 120-130 near gem and gem coins out of THREE rolls! The years I didn't do so well were 1950, 51, and 53. 53 was especially bad, with only one that Wayne felt could make 66 in PCGS or NGC. He pulled 3 66s in 1950 and 4 66s in 1951, but that is still not too shabby for just 2 rolls of each year! He graded 32 of 51s at MS-65, and just 2 1950s at 65. The rest were 64PQs and below. I did much better on the 55, 56, 57, 57-D, and 58s, with the breakdown as follows:
1955- 22 MS-65PQ to MS-67 (out of 2 rolls)
1956- 27 MS-65PQ to MS-67 (out of 2 rolls)
1957- 27 MS-65PQ to MS-67 (out of 2 rolls)
1957-D- 21 MS-65PQ to MS-67 (out of 2 rolls)
1958- 9 MS-65PQ to MS-67 (out of 1 roll)
So all in all I think I got lucky
I will keep one of 67s and one of each year in 66 as a keep sake while the rest of the high grades in this initial batch will be consigned through Wayne to sell. Cheers!
BigBen
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Comments
--Severian the Lame
Joe
<< <i>The rolls I bought were old capped end plastic rolls that looked like they were put together many years ago (50s or 60s) and it appears that I bought either a dealer or a tasteful Lincoln collector's finest picks and just got really lucky in that I paid standard roll prices (I paid $15 a piece for the 54 P rolls). Wayne Herndon has an almost complete set of PCGS MS-66 and MS-67 1950s Wheats that we compared them too and Wayne feels confident that I found something significant, but we'll have to wait for "official" confirmation when the grades come back
It's pretty obvious that they are not original rolls. They just didn't make rolls with
only the finest coins even back before 1950 when most coins were well made. The
odds of it happening with some of these '50's dates by chance are simply astronom-
ical.
As far as original rolls go, they are available up to 1964. After this (moderns) their
availability gets spotty. Basically there are no dimes or quarters except for '65, '76,
and post-'98. Nickels are very hit and miss and range from nearly as tough as the
clad to common. Half dollars and dollars are all fairly common but many of these have
already been destroyed so you may have difficulty laying hands on a few of them.
Cents are all common but a few dates are in really poor shape and some of the later
dates are tough enough to make it difficult to acquire in quantity.
There seems little doubt about what these rolls are. The only remaining questions are
how good a job did the original collector do, and what quality coins did he have access
to. Setting aside gems in quantity won't happen if you can't even find one gem and
this is not too unusual with post-1950 issues and part of the reason post '64 clad wasn't
saved.
Good luck.
Hope you can find a market maker for all that Modern Crap™.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
To me, the 1950s wheats are technicaly "modern" but then again they're not, as they are all the same design from 1909 to 1958. Throw in the true rare status of MS-66 and 67 1954 Ps and all in all it is a good series to collect, especially in 2009 when the new Lincoln comes out........
Also, if you sold some of the graded coins, what did they sell for?
<< <i>The rolls I bought were old capped end plastic rolls that looked like they were put together many years ago (50s or 60s) and it appears that I bought either a dealer or a tasteful Lincoln collector's finest picks and just got really lucky in that I paid standard roll prices (I paid $15 a piece for the 54 P rolls). Wayne Herndon has an almost complete set of PCGS MS-66 and MS-67 1950s Wheats that we compared them too and Wayne feels confident that I found something significant, but we'll have to wait for "official" confirmation when the grades come back
Congrat's Tom and hope you hit the "Mother Lode"!!!!!!!!!!
TIA
edited for an Oops.
Wayne even said it himself:
He felt that at least a couple of the coins were PCGS 67, and as many as 15 to 20 could be NGC 67, including some of the 1954 P mint Lincolns!
I too would LOVE to hear what happened with this submission. BigBen, where art thou????????
Could be a different ID, but I think it was bigben....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Here's one of the nicest 66RD 54-P's you'll ever come across! If I'm not mistaken, Wheatfanatic sold me this coin (I no longer own it) and I believe he found it in a hoard of fresh rolls from a PA coin shop (correct me if I'm wrong Jason). Anyway, this coin went in for TrueView two times and I believe it may even have a new cert #. One of the cert #'s appears altered...and that's my doing using Photoshop because the first TV photo was more representative of the coin in terms of luster. It's all there! Rest assured it's the same coin...but in a different light.
A very avid lincoln collector purchased this coin from me this past summer...but I'll let him identify himself if he should choose to do so. I no longer own the coin.
I too am curious why you would choose NGC over PCGs?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>It's freaky to open a thread and see that avatar!
Yes. Yes, it is!