What does "Altered Surfaces" really mean? *Image

psxchelly

I have this nice coin that came back "Altered Surfaces". I have no clue what that means because I didnt dip it... and there isnt any evidence that the seller did anything to it.

Just wondering if anyone could please tell me what should I look for on the coin to see what PCGS saw?

Michelle

Edited to add:
I am only kidding about the selling part a couple messages down. I am actually trying to complete a nice little type set for myself. I will still keep the coin because I really like it.

fivecents

It can many different things. Can you post a picture of the coin?

dizzyfoxx

It's a technical way of saying, "we're all out of slabs for today, try again later"

DickyBetz

It could mean anything really. They just dont think the coin looks original.

psxchelly

Or maybe a technical way of saying, we are not going to grade your really nice coin so you can sell it and make a couple hundred bucks?

TwoSides2aCoin

I got two 50D franklins back that say "cleaning"... I guess they could have said "altered surfaces", too.

It means the coin is not in it's original mint state. It could have rub, dipping, light cleaning or discolored.... Actually anything less than Mint State is an altered surface, but don't tell anyone here that.

When a woman puts make-up on, she may look better, ... but guess what ? Altered Surfaces !

Fairlaneman

<< <i>Or maybe a technical way of saying, we are not going to grade your really nice coin so you can sell it and make a couple hundred bucks? >>



Lets see a picture and then someone will tell you if the above is a valid statement. Nuff said.

Ken

fivecents

<< <i>Or maybe a technical way of saying, we are not going to grade your really nice coin so you can sell it and make a couple hundred bucks? >>

It's a conspiracy.

UncleWiggly

Are you a starving artist?



Jerry

bhartman35

Altered surfaces is defined as "Whizzed, harsh cleaning, thumped over (using a pasty substance to alter the appearance)". So basically, they're saying either someone used the coin equivalent of spackle on the coin, or they took a Brillo pad to it.

bgrice

I agree with others.... post pics and odds are you'll get the answer. PCGS has zapped me for 3 *altered surfaces* notations(2 of them artificial toning) and it wasn't a surprise on any of them.... although I was hoping the graders had a serious hangover and everything looked fuzzy(kosher) when they got to them.

fivecents

She PMed the image to me. It's an 1881-S PL with what looks like almost heavy cameo. Hopefully she will post it in this thread.

psxchelly

Hello everyone. Thank you for your helpful posts. I received some very good advice in a PM from a very knowledgeable board member. So I will be doing some investigation with the microscope tomorrow.

For those of you who are interested here is a pic: (its like 500k)

thanks everybody!
Michelle

roadrunner

I purchased an NGC MS64 $10 Lib out of a major auction. It was very clean and looked 65+. After cracking it out it has come back "altered surfaces" twice from NGC. I've shown it to some gold wholesalers who cannot pinpoint the reason. It may be that it was lightly brushed with something to diffuse the luster. It has no hairlines or luster issues.

Another time a Proof 65 DCAM ANACs seated quarter was attempted at a NGC cross and came back altered surfaces. Since it was a very strong DCAM coin I can only assume the surfaces were lasered or the figures frosted or both. When I showed the coin to some major crackers they did not see anything that seemed unusual. I suspect the depth of mirrors was so great that they were redone somehow.

roadrunner

Oney

I had a 1879-S Morgan come back as altered surfaces. I resubmitted and it cam back MS65....

Russ

<< <i>What does "Altered Surfaces" really mean? >>



It means you haven't yet ponied up enough in grading fees.

Russ, NCNE

morganbarber

I have told this story a bunch of times. When my father died, he had a bunch of coins. Among them were about 100 Morgans and Peace- mostly junk. One dealer offered a minimum higher than another. Because most of the coins were of minimal value, I took them to him. He paid what he said he would for the majority of the junk, and for some of the nicer pieces, he offered a few dollars more. Eventually we came to a very nice Morgan, I believe an 1886. It looked to me to be a 65. He said it had altered surfaces and offered the minimum. "for that price", I said, "I'll just keep it." Some time later PCGS had an incredible offer to join with four free gradings. I had a few coins I wanted to send so I joined. After finding three coins to have slabbed, I decided to send in the best raw Morgan I had to round out the lot. It wasn't until the coins were mailed that I realized that the Morgan was the same one that the astute dealer had called bad. Sure enough, PCGS bagged it for altered surfaces. I stared at the coin from every angle an still could not figure it out. I'm not really proud of this, but I sold it to another dealer who is less astute(and, by the way hates slabs)for 64 money. I guess many people have a better eye than I because that beautiful dollar sat in his case for a very long time.

WTCG

Altered surfaces can mean many different things, but the altered surfaces on the imaged 1881-S looks like thumbing or waxing on the cheek of the obverse.

bhartman35

The Liberty in the pic does seem to have some Noxema smeared on her face, doesn't she? Is there a way to get that off w/o damaging the coin?

morgannut2

They may be seeing some actors grease or putty in the lighter circular area of your image on the bottem 1/3 of the cheek, and/or the left 1/2 of the neck. Or, look closely for light abrasions that all abruptly stop at the same points at the edge of any discoloration. Also look for very light abrasions within any areas on the cheek that all seem to go the same parallel direction (thumbing) but aren't raised roller marks.