UPDATED: It is the counterfeit 1900-O Morgan (was: I think I may have won a 1900-O counterfeit Morga

jdsinva

Here's the link, I guess I'll find out in a few days. . .

ElKevvo

Just curious, why do you think it is counterfeit? Looks OK to me from the photos...seller has other circ Morgans for sale etc. Am I missing something from the photos?

K

jdsinva

On the fake pieces, there are two "lines" that are between the U & M of UNUM. The fuzzy photo seems to indicate those lines on this coin. But that's the reason I used the word MAY have won.

Rampage

An obvious micro-O. I also see the diagnostic die scratches on the obverse. Congratulations on the tough coin.

MAD4MORGANS

YUP!! Looks bogus to me!!

Nice investment by the way...I hear there's more silver content in the counterfeit ones and silver is going up!!

wam98

That sure looks like a counterfeit micro o. I'd say you scored.

jdsinva

The auction description states all the seller's coin were cleaned but I didn't think I would be finding one anytime soon. So, cleaned or not, I'm glad to possibly have one!

ElKevvo

Thanks for the info! Learned something new here today and that is one of the reasons I read these posts!

K

jdsinva

Here's a picture of Richard's coin I kept for reference. . .

morganbarber

The coin looked completely real to me until I say the MM.

Rampage

<< <i>Here's a picture of Richard's coin I kept for reference. . .

>>



Thought I recognized that picture. That is the same obverse die, but the reverse die was different. The mint mark on the coin in the one Jeff pictured is the medium O mintmark. VAM 22C (If I recalled correctly).

jdsinva

Now if only the 1896 micro O and 1902 micro O had easy identifying marks. . .

wam98

Here's a photo of my 96 micro o.

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy

Awesome score! Don't worry that its "cleaned". They all are. The counterfeiters seem to have artificially aged them to keep it from being too obvious that they are fake. Some circulated to the point they wore to the point they recovered. Regardless, it is a great coin.

Rob

Myqqy

What kind of market value to the counterfeits have?

relayer

Congratulations, er, I mean that's too bad, er, no congratulations - yeah that's the ticket

Coxe

Nice pickup on that micro-o. Looks to be in a higher grade than most too. I still need to find on of those 00-O. Only have the 96-O and 02-O (and the legit 99-O, of course). I have also heard that there might be an 01-O micro o out there.

Wolf359

<< <i>An obvious micro-O. I also see the diagnostic die scratches on the obverse. Congratulations on the tough coin. >>

Wolf359

<< <i>Nice pickup on that micro-o. Looks to be in a higher grade than most too. I still need to find on of those 00-O. Only have the 96-O and 02-O (and the legit 99-O, of course). I have also heard that there might be an 01-O micro o out there. >>



At least 2 yes. Makes me what to check 1897-O and 1898-O too!

messydesk

<< <i>That sure looks like a counterfeit micro o. I'd say you scored. >>


I'll say YOU SUCK! Congratulations, though.

messydesk

<< <i>

<< <i>Nice pickup on that micro-o. Looks to be in a higher grade than most too. I still need to find on of those 00-O. Only have the 96-O and 02-O (and the legit 99-O, of course). I have also heard that there might be an 01-O micro o out there. >>



At least 2 yes. Makes me what to check 1897-O and 1898-O too! >>


The link to other yet-undiscovered counterfeits of the infamous "micro O" production run is the 1900-O VAM 22. It has the same obverse as the 1900-O Micro O, with the two gouges in UM, but a "normal O" reverse. If the counterfeiters replaced dies the way the mint does, one at a time as they wear out, then maybe 1897 and 1898 are the dates that you're looking for. If they produced the coins in a "round robin" manner, using each obverse with each reverse to maximize the number of die combinations they could produce, there are additional counterfeit 1896-O and 1902-O out there with the 1900-O VAM 22 reverse.

nesvt

I missed the thread earlier in the week.
Congrats! Great score!

Baley

Not many threads get to say,

"Yay, the coin is counterfeit!"

nice work, good eye

bhartman35

From all the high-fives, I'm guessing that the counterfeit 1900-O is more valuable than the real thing. Is this correct? (Excuse my ignorance.)

Coxe

<< <i>From all the high-fives, I'm guessing that the counterfeit 1900-O is more valuable than the real thing. Is this correct? (Excuse my ignorance.) >>



PCGS Article


....and they happen to be Top-100 VAMs too. They are difficult to locate, always have, and are unavailable in high grades.

jdsinva

I fell like I'm holding my breath until it arrives in the mail. I'll get up pcitures if/when it gets here. . .

joefro

Ok cool, I learned something new too. But one thing I haven't seen anyone ask or explain is why someone chose to make counterfeit common date Morgans that contain more silver than a real one? Seems like a lot of effort by someone to have made these in the early 1900s... why?

messydesk

<< <i>why someone chose to make counterfeit common date Morgans that contain more silver than a real one? Seems like a lot of effort by someone to have made these in the early 1900s... why? >>


Silver hovered between 55c and 65c an ounce in the early 1900s, which would make a proper silver dollar contain less than 50c worth of silver. These would have had to be made in large quantities to be worthwhile to produce.

jdsinva

With the coin in hand, the wear seems to be consistent with AU but the coin details will only be XF at best. I see no signs of harsh (i.e. hairlined) cleaning but it does have a bit of that washed-out look. There is, however a bit of luster on the obverse periphery. I'm still at work but hopefully I can get some pictures up this evening.

Conder101

<< <i>Silver hovered between 55c and 65c an ounce in the early 1900s, which would make a proper silver dollar contain less than 50c worth of silver. These would have had to be made in large quantities to be worthwhile to produce. >>


The quantities wouldn'thave to be all that large to make it worthwhile. A profit of 40 to 50 cents apiece doesn't sound like much to us today, but back then it represented almost a half a days income per coin produced. Get your planchets ready and even with a screwpress you can crank out about 20 coins a minute without trying too hard. That's TEN days income per MINUTE.

Even if you are doing this on a shoestring budget, you will be talking real money very quickly. Say you can only get together enough silver to make 10 coins.

Monday you make 10 coins and use it to buy enough silver to make 20.
Tuesday you make 20 coins and buy silver for 40.
Wednesday make 40, silver for 80.
Thursday 80 coins, silver for 160.
Friday 160, and 320
Saturday 320, and buy silver for 640.
Monday you strike the 640 coins and if you want you can now lie low because you just created nearly ywo years worth of income in the last hour. (I stopped the doubling because by this point you probably couldn't keep up with the planchet production. Remember shoestring budget, just one do it yourselfer. Maybe one family member helper.) So you work for a week and take 100 weeks off. Or you can keep working but just drop your production down to say 30 coins a day. That means every DAY, you sock away another MONTHS income. Do 30 coins a day for a year and you can retire for good.

Newb

Bump for my new win on ebay. This will be the second one of these I have. The first came from my Grandad's collection, and I didn't have a clue about them til I found this board.

dcarr

<< <i>Now if only the 1896 micro O and 1902 micro O had easy identifying marks. . . >>



They do. The identifying mark is called a "micro o"