PSA 10 vs BGS 10 (or 9.5)
frankhardy
Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ok, what is the deal? I have seen a bunch of BGS 10's lately. I think we all have. First, let's back up to when BGS 9.5's were rare. I never have understood the price difference between those and a PSA 10. I would much rather have a PSA if for anything, the registry. Why in the world would someone want to pay $28,000 for a BGS 10 Pujols RC auto, when you can have a PSA 10 for a fourth of that. It really makes no sense whatsoever. I just don't think there is over $20,000 difference between a PSA and a BGS 10. I think some people need their heads examined. Especially since BGS is well known for grading trimmed cards. I would rather have a 10 by the company that's more established in grading.
Just had to vent.
Just had to vent.
Shane
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Comments
Well... nobody did. In fact, I believe it was proven to be shill bid by the owner to that. I personally don't mind BGS graded cards, and of course like PSA. I do not collect SGC, GAI, SCD, Joe's Basement Grading, or any other sort of goofy graded cards. I don't understand the popular belief that BGS grades trimmed cards, but I believe every grading card company has it's flaws... ya just have to take the good with the bad. I sent a Bench Rc to BGS to have graded, but came back trimmed.... I sent the very same card to PSA afterwords, and got a PSA 7 on it... does that mean it wasn't trimmed and BGS made it up? Does that mean PSA graded trimmed cards too? Personally, I don't think the card is trimmed at all! But... again... this is all just my opinion.
I agree it seems that BGS 10's have all of the sudden been coming out of the woodworks! I can't help but think this is all an effort to build BGS's popularity. Would I pay big bucks for an over-graded BGS 10??? NO! I think that only thing a BGS 10 is good for is bragging rights. PSA has been a LOT more consistant with their service (over-all.) BGS has changed their look, standards, policies.... it's making it harder to continue to collect their stuff.
ALWAYS Looking for Chris Sabo cards!
<< <i>I do not collect SGC, GAI, SCD, Joe's Basement Grading, or any other sort of goofy graded cards. >>
Sorry but I think SGC deserves a little more credit than to be lumped in with some of the other companies you mentioned.
<< <i>Ok, what is the deal? I have seen a bunch of BGS 10's lately. I think we all have. First, let's back up to when BGS 9.5's were rare. I never have understood the price difference between those and a PSA 10. I would much rather have a PSA if for anything, the registry. Why in the world would someone want to pay $28,000 for a BGS 10 Pujols RC auto, when you can have a PSA 10 for a fourth of that. It really makes no sense whatsoever. I just don't think there is over $20,000 difference between a PSA and a BGS 10. I think some people need their heads examined. Especially since BGS is well known for grading trimmed cards. I would rather have a 10 by the company that's more established in grading.
Just had to vent. >>
Will you stop with the trimmed baloney all the time with BGS. I just took a 59' Koufax to Beckett at the Fort Washington show that I know was trimmed and it came back trimmed. I also took it to GAI and they said it was trimmed too. A lot of people look at a BGS 9.5 as a PSA 10, difference between a GEM Mint and Pristine. Also, the centering standards are tighter for a pristine card vs. gem mint as one criteria. chaz
<< <i>Will you stop with the trimmed baloney all the time with BGS. >>
I agree with Chaz! Yes BGS grades sheeet cut cards, but so what! I love Yzerman OPC #67 rookies and collect them all !!! My ranking and summary of current pricing: BGS Pristine #1 at $10,000; Psa 10 #2 at $2,000 #3 BGS 9.5 (9.50 9.5 9.5 9.0) $500; PSA 9 #4 $150; BGS 9... not worth owning! . The BGS are not "pack" cards that were trimmed, but cut individually from sheets. I see nothing wrong with sheetcut cards and I see nothing wrong with PSA's policy not to grade them. It is their choice to make, no one elses.
<< <i>
<< <i>Will you stop with the trimmed baloney all the time with BGS. >>
I agree with Chaz! Yes BGS grades sheeet cut cards, but so what! I love Yzerman OPC #67 rookies and collect them all !!! My ranking and summary of current pricing: BGS Pristine #1 at $10,000; Psa 10 #2 at $2,000 #3 BGS 9.5 (9.50 9.5 9.5 9.0) $500; PSA 9 #4 $150; BGS 9... not worth owning! . The BGS are not "pack" cards that were trimmed, but cut individually from sheets. I see nothing wrong with sheetcut cards and I see nothing wrong with PSA's policy not to grade them. It is their choice to make, no one elses. >>
Hey Poppie - what do you think about "hand cut " cards from the 50's that PSA grades? To me, it is all subjective. "Handcut" from PSA and "Sheetcut" from Beckett. Nobody is right or wrong here. Just keep it real and keep it honest. Beckett, GAI, PSA and SGC do NOT grade trimmed cards. chaz
There's definatly some strange goings on, on ebay. Always good for a laugh.
<< <i>I just took a 59' Koufax to Beckett at the Fort Washington show that I know was trimmed and it came back trimmed. I also took it to GAI and they said it was trimmed too. A lot of people look at a BGS 9.5 as a PSA 10, difference between a GEM Mint and Pristine. Also, the centering standards are tighter for a pristine card vs. gem mint as one criteria. chaz >>
Chaz, this posts confirms everything about your character that I already suspected!!!
<< <i>Hey Poppie - what do you think about "hand cut " cards from the 50's that PSA grades? To me, it is all subjective. "Handcut" from PSA and "Sheetcut" from Beckett. Nobody is right or wrong here. Just keep it real and keep it honest. Beckett, GAI, PSA and SGC do NOT grade trimmed cards. chaz >>
Chaz: I bought a Psa 9 W515 Cobb in Goodwin's auction and I absolutely love it. I did not think that PSA would grade a sheet cut or a hand cut if it was available in a pack via normal distribution. What hand cuts are you refering to?
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<< <i>Hey Poppie - what do you think about "hand cut " cards from the 50's that PSA grades? To me, it is all subjective. "Handcut" from PSA and "Sheetcut" from Beckett. Nobody is right or wrong here. Just keep it real and keep it honest. Beckett, GAI, PSA and SGC do NOT grade trimmed cards. chaz >>
Chaz: I bought a Psa 9 W515 Cobb in Goodwin's auction and I absolutely love it. I did not think that PSA would grade a sheet cut or a hand cut if it was available in a pack via normal distribution. What hand cuts are you refering to? >>
Try the 59' Bazooka cards for starters. Look on ebay. chaz
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<< <i>I just took a 59' Koufax to Beckett at the Fort Washington show that I know was trimmed and it came back trimmed. I also took it to GAI and they said it was trimmed too. A lot of people look at a BGS 9.5 as a PSA 10, difference between a GEM Mint and Pristine. Also, the centering standards are tighter for a pristine card vs. gem mint as one criteria. chaz >>
Chaz, this posts confirms everything about your character that I already suspected!!!
I DID IT AS A TEST YOU TURKEY !!!!!! CHAZ
<< <i>Hey Chaz, Why are you so dense that you can not tell the difference between a card being collected as intended, ie a 1950s Bazooka card (Which PSA states on the holder is hand cut) and a card that is deceptively trimmed post production to make a card nicer. BGS does not note on holder of an after market cut as psa does on a bazooka. Why is the concept so foreign to you. your comparisons are moot. Also the fact that you had one poorly trimmed card rejected by beckett does not mean they dont let countless cards with after market cuts through for grading. the size needs to still be correct (or very close to correct)for them (BGS) to slab it. >>
Hey Glyn - you mean I could not tell the difference of whether or not it was hand cut if PSA did not state it on the holder ????? Give me a break. Again, for the 50th time for all of you dense people, hand cut is still hand cut and it all is in the eye of the beholder. Whether PSA states it or not, it's still hand cut turkey and not cut from the factory.....bottom line.... it is all subjective. Regarding the trimmed card, how do you know it was poorly trimmed????????? Were you there???? I have also submiitted other cards(not many) to Beckett and GAI as a test and all came back trimmed. I love how you turkey's make general assumptions without knowing the facts. chaz
<< <i>Chaz it is you who we all laugh at. You big tough guy behind your computer acting like a child with your name calling and pitiful observations. One type of card was cut off a box as it was intended and the other is done with the intention to deceive buyers in to thinking their card is a condition anomally, when that often is just not the case. they are not the same thing no matter how many names you call us on here, and no matter how often you use the caps lock button a trimmed card and a card cut from a box as intended will never be the exact same thing. Also i know your card had to be poorly trimmed because apperently you knew it was trimmed. >>
Poorly trimmed ??? Are you nuts? I took my little ruler and measured it and it was very slightly off the 3 1/2 topside, so again get your facts straight. Again, my freind with regards to the hand cut it is all subjective. Go look it up if you don't know what that means. We can agree to disagree but there are people on this board who do agree with me so there. I don't have to sit behind a computer tough guy to say what I think. I am just trying to keep it real and as honest as I can. What's wrong with that? chaz
Now if you take a card that has already been issued, and than trim that card to make it look better, that's a foul. PSA, Beckett, SGC will not knowingly grade a trimmed card (although some have been known to slip through
As for the "Hand Cut" cards that PSA does grade, this is vastly different from a trimmed card. These cards (such as Drakes, Hostess, Wheaties, Bazooka, etc.) were part of a products packaging. Many collectors prefer to keep these cards intact, but there are those that want to collect the card and not the box. PSA has recognized this and will grade these "Hand Cut" cards and designate them as such. These cards were intended to be cut from their packaging.
Hopefully this clears up some of the controversy
Shane
Also in regards to BGS when i was a submitter in 2000 they did in fact grade cards that were cut, not cut from sheets but flat out cut, and this was told to me by Pepper Hastings (FORMER EMPLOYEE AT BECKETT WHO WAS WITH THEM AT THE TIME) at the Big Pittsburgh show. As long as they were sized correctly he stated they would holder the card. It was at this time i quit submitting to them, except for the occasional freebie grade when i renewed my magazine subscription.
<< <i>Chaz if you need a ruler to tell that a card has been trimmed you need to learn alot more about the cuts of cards. many oversized cards are trimmed down and still measure correctly. Yet are rejected by the competent companies like sgc and psa who are better versed at reading a cards cut and not just holding it up to a ruler as a novice does.
Also in regards to BGS when i was a submitter in 2000 they did in fact grade cards that were cut, not cut from sheets but flat out cut, and this was told to me by Pepper Hastings (FORMER EMPLOYEE AT BECKETT WHO WAS WITH THEM AT THE TIME) at the Big Pittsburgh show. As long as they were sized correctly he stated they would holder the card. It was at this time i quit submitting to them, except for the occasional freebie grade when i renewed my magazine subscription. >>
Glyn- you are full of baloney. I submitted tons fo cards to PSA, Becket and GAI and not once after I measured and looked at a card that I knew was not trimmed, it came back fine....so give it up.
IN 2000, that was what ...... 6 years ago???? and how do you know for sure ?? Maybe he was a ticked off emloyee...who knows? Give me a break. If you don't like Beckett that's your problem. Just keep it real and quit slingin the crap. Keep it honest ......peace. chaz
<< <i>I think we are getting a little off the point here. Ok, forget the fact about BGS and trimmed cards. The question still is this - why does BGS 10's and 9.5's bring so much more than a PSA 10. I think it is ridiculous. >>
RARITY AND DEMAND. CHAZ
By the way, if you were born prior to 1995, you'd know from the song that "baloney" is actually B-O-L-O-G-N-A.
..and it has a first and last name...
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
<< <i>Chaz-you're still an idiot. Would you please go away now?
By the way, if you were born prior to 1995, you'd know from the song that "baloney" is actually B-O-L-O-G-N-A.
..and it has a first and last name...
Figures..... a loser Vikings fan. I'd rather be a Beagles fan (on 2nd thought.....no, I wouldn't).
<< <i>oh yeah Chaz by the way if you think any of the real grading companies sit there with a ruler measuring your cards to see if they are trimmed you are a fool. >>
We have a difference of opinion. BVG and BGS still sell and they always will genius. chaz
<< <i>Chaz, if you were a little more educated about cards you would know that countless people on these boards have tracked many Sp and Sp Authentic cards ( serial #'d) that have gone from PSA or SGC 7-8s to BGS 9.5 or better, and that all of a sudden noticable wear was now absent from the card ,how did that happen? Also if you had done most of the major conventions around the country, as I have, and were friends with a majority of the dealers out there, they would tell you they (the modern ebay bgs guys) trim cards and send them to Beckett, it is so well known among major dealers. why do you think it is much harder to sell a vintage BGS BVG then a PSA? and contrary to the title of this thread vintage (pre1969)bgs usually does not outsell PSA and this is were most of the very knowledgable dealers interests lie. >>
You are so full of it. Go on ebay and look at the prices Beckett gets. Give it up. Chaz
and Chaz if you cant do anything other then name call it shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. you post as if you were some sort of expert well bring some meat to the argument or stay out of it.
New Member has been crabby. Hope you have a better day today!
Also, BGS/BVG will not grade a card just because it measures up. That's been true for a while now, and is probably why they lightened their condition standards from the old days. If it were that simple, then a lot of these dealers wouldn't get so many cards rejected by them for being restored. They examine the edges to detect alterations, but the fact is that there are techniques and equipment most dealers use that make this process very hard for any grading company. Obviously, some grading companies are better at it than others, and I trust PSA as much if not more than any of them. However, as a dealer said in another thread, an altered card will eventually grade with any company if it is done well.
Shane
SGC should not be lumped into the PRO category, by the way. They are a lot more reputable than that, and some vintage collectors actually prefer them for certain issues. BGS grades trimmed cards, sheet cut cards, and their audience is largely younger modern collectors...but, it seems like the word is getting out about the quality of BGS.
<< <i>Just went on ebay still do not see where vintage bvg graded cards are outselling psa?? Chaz you need to go take a look on ebay before you start acting like some expert. I am sure you can find an example here and there but on the whole psa vintage is far more in demand then bvg as can be seen by the fact they sell for greater prices and the population of psa vintage graded is much larger then bvg yet they still outsell bvg. Bgs will be around as long as people are uneducated and continue to drink the beckett kool aid. many think because the magazine was the leader of the hobby for a time that their grading must be superior and that is not the case, although i do like how sturdy their holders are.
and Chaz if you cant do anything other then name call it shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. you post as if you were some sort of expert well bring some meat to the argument or stay out of it. >>
Did I ever say that they outsold PSA ? Are you out of kindergarden yet or do you have to take more reading comprehension classes? You don't like Beckett that's your problem. Alot of people do and you my friend are not going to change that. Live and let live BRO. chaz
<< <i>The modern dealers who send altered cards to bgs also send altered cards to psa and have pretty much the same results in terms of grade distribution and the ratio of cards rejected for trimming. PSA may reject more - I can't really say - but it's also possible that the cards they're sending to CA were previously rejected in TX. The guy who sold the infamous prior bgs 10 has sold numerous tough psa 10's, and has an assortment of 10's and "evid of trimming" in every submission and almost every week. There was a lot of talk about some of these dealers and psa about a year and a half ago, but most of those posters have since 'left the building.'
Also, BGS/BVG will not grade a card just because it measures up. That's been true for a while now, and is probably why they lightened their condition standards from the old days. If it were that simple, then a lot of these dealers wouldn't get so many cards rejected by them for being restored. They examine the edges to detect alterations, but the fact is that there are techniques and equipment most dealers use that make this process very hard for any grading company. Obviously, some grading companies are better at it than others, and I trust PSA as much if not more than any of them. However, as a dealer said in another thread, an altered card will eventually grade with any company if it is done well. >>
A voice of reason. Thanks. Chaz
<< <i>And, what would have happened if that Koufax had made it into a BGS or GAI holder - I wonder if we ever would have heard about this "test".
SGC should not be lumped into the PRO category, by the way. They are a lot more reputable than that, and some vintage collectors actually prefer them for certain issues. BGS grades trimmed cards, sheet cut cards, and their audience is largely younger modern collectors...but, it seems like the word is getting out about the quality of BGS. >>
Quit with trimmed bull turkey. PSA ,BGS, GAI and SGC do not grade trimmed cards. I learned first hand about that. PSA grades "hand cut " cards so what? It is all subjective. chaz
poppie i am not a new member i just got a new computer and email address and forgot my old password so i signed up for a new account. i have in fact been dealing with psa since 1992 and have even done work in their grading room so i think i may have a little idea about that which i speak. also thank you for the wishes of a better day but i am not angry just frustrated by someones ignorance.
<< <i>You are stuck on this hand cut thing not just psa grades hand cut cards sgc gai and beckett all grade strip cards and bazookas not just psa. you told me to go on ebay and look at the prices beckett gets what exactly did you mean by that if you were not inferring they bring better prices. plus chaz you are contradicting yourself you tell us how right on sdavid is. then in your very next post you claim that none of the big companies grade trimmed cards i think you are the one in need of reading comprehension. oh yeah and chaz since we are from the same basic area and you seem to think you are so much smarter than i am you name the place and test of intelligence and well see how bad i embarass you.
poppie i am not a new member i just got a new computer and email address and forgot my old password so i signed up for a new account. i have in fact been dealing with psa since 1992 and have even done work in their grading room so i think i may have a little idea about that which i speak. also thank you for the wishes of a better day but i am not angry just frustrated by someones ignorance. >>
Man, what's your problem? The world does not revolve around you. Other grading companies have a right to exist and market their products. Some you like, some you don't like....so what? To make bad or erroneous general statements about any Company is short sighted and childish. Good grading card companies like GAI, PSA, BGS or SGC don't knowingly grade inferior products, sometimes mistakes are made. I have a PSA 8 1970 Clemente that has a very bad crease on the lower back border that I have to send back to PSA....so what? Does that mean that PSA grades cards with creases in them??? NO !!!! Somebody just missed it. Again my friend, live and let live. Chaz