Home U.S. Coin Forum

News Fllash $5 and $10 Gold Blank Planchets Sell at Doyle Gallery Auction

FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just got off the phone with someone who was representing
me in bidding on the Doyle Galleries Auction of material
from Hawaii, that included the unique (to my knowledge)
$5 and $10 Gold planchets, most likely from the San
Francisco Mint, in the 1880's or 1890's.

They Sold for:

$5 Blank Planchet $16,000 + 20% Buyers Fee = $19,200 Total

$10 Blank Planchet $28,000 + 20% Buyers Fee = $33,600 Total

Needless to say, I was outbid.

Without a doubt, a World's Record for ANY type of
Blank Planchets. (These were nice Type 2's, NGC cert.)

Fred
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.

Comments

  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    that is pricey for what you get in my opinion.
    it sorta scares me unless it went to a museum or what not.

    must be nice to be wealthly otherwise.
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    That's a lot of money for blank planchets! Wow!

    I remember meeting someone at the ANA Summer Seminar (I think it was the guy who runs apmex.com) who was doing a type set of blank
    planchets. I thought that was a very fresh idea for a set.

    Fred, what type of collector would go after these, in your opinion? Hardcore error collector? Someone who collects rare gold and wants something really different in the set? Or what?

    One other question - were they graded by NGC? Not that it matters... it's hard to think of anything more pointless than grading blank planchets.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They were graded by NGC, as were the other coins in the collection.

    As far as who bought it, I did get a description of the person, but no one
    knows him (at this point). My rep. said he might be able to find out who
    the winning bidder was in a day or two.

    These pieces would appeal to various collectors: an error collector who needed
    them to help further complete his collection of blanks (they are both unique);
    someone who collects U.S. gold, and wants something "different"; and maybe
    just a collector of rarities who thinks they were a good deal for a unique set
    of coins, compared to other unique or super-rare numismatic items.

    By the way, the same person bought both blanks........

    Fred
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • OffMetalOffMetal Posts: 1,684
    Those were very nice looking blank planchets. I'd bet that you were the 2nd highest bidder on both of them image
    -Ben T. * Collector of Errors! * Proud member of the CUFYNA
  • ,,,,,,,,,,image
  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are a bunch of people (well, several anyway) who are trying to do type sets and/or complete sets of blank planchets. The problem is that once you get past current coinage (easy for the most part), and some other types of coinage with large mintages (90% silver planchets are pretty easy), things get really tough.

    I'm playing with a set myself, and I've got just about everything that comes onto the market with any frequency, but the rest are expensive and I just can't bring myself to commit the money necessary to go further.

    David Lawrence recently had a half-cent blank planchet that they wanted $2500 or so for. It was only the second one I've seen in 10 years, if it wasn't a second appearance of the same one twice. Still, I passed.

    90% silver dollar blank planchets sell in the $1000-1500 range, but are not too difficult to find.

    I passed on a nice large cent blank planchet at a show recently because the seller wanted $200. That price was on the high side of fair, but not bad. I passed because I have one already.

    I would have loved to bid on those two gold planchets, but I sort of figured the bidding would go where it did.

    jonathan
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, I wasn't the underbidder by any stretch of the imagination.

    They went for about 30-35% more than my bids.......
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • Thank you for sharing. That is interesting to know that planchets are going for this kind of money.

    Freakimage
  • ColorfulcoinsColorfulcoins Posts: 3,365 ✭✭✭
    I saw the catalog and pics.....very very cool and I thoiught quite reasonable atthe projected sales price.....which was less than half of what they actually sold for!
    Craig
    If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was outbid on these 2 gold blanks as well.
    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,356 ✭✭✭✭✭
    At those prices, don't be surprised if more gold blank planchets appear on the market. How hard can it be to make a blank planchet?


    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What were the grades of the blank planchets. Type 1 or type 2?
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
  • RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seems like everything was strong in the sale.

    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ahh, to gaze upon the wonder of those lovely...

    blanks? image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,043 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a very unique UNOPENED original bank wrapped quarter roll of Delaware quarter rolls. I bought it in early 2000, before the 2000 quarters were released and before the Delaware quarters went crazy.

    On one end is a blank planchet quarter but who knows what the other side looks like or for that matter what the other side of that "blank planchet" looks like!!!

    I think it is really cool!!

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I liked those planchets.

    When you run out of coins to buy in the regular series, it's fun to buy the odd ball stuff. I can see why someone with a extensive gold collection would be interested.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They were in NGC holders, no grade, marked
    "Mint Error"......



    Fred
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Were they type 1 or type 2 ?
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,309 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How can we be certain that these are US Mint products?

    Not that I doubt it. I even bid pretty strongly on the things. But still, I wonder...

    Somebody, please educate us.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They were Type @ (Upset Rims) --

    Andy, we can't know for sure, but based on the backround of the
    source of most of the collection (banker, receiving new coins for
    the Islands, etc.), and the "look" of them, I'd have no problem
    saying they were real.

    Also, this "soft edge type 2 rim" is rarely, if ever, seen on private
    gold, silver, or other metal blank planchets. And, the weight is
    right on for $5 and $10 coins - something that non-coin blanks
    would not be, at least that close......
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • 1jester1jester Posts: 8,637 ✭✭✭


    << <i>At those prices, don't be surprised if more gold blank planchets appear on the market. How hard can it be to make a blank planchet? >>



    Exactly. I would think it might not be that difficult to counterfeit something like that. But I could be wrong!

    imageimageimage
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it would be fairly easy to determine not only
    fake gold blanks from 50-100 years ago (as we have
    seen in the past), but especially new fake gold blanks.

    Blanks, both type 1 and type 2, have certain charactoristics
    that help in determining authenticity..........

    Fred
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's good news. I have some material for use in blank planchets but it is material in a state that is PRIOR to creating planchets OR rolled sheet. It must be worth a FORTUNE!
    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,356 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Struck gold counterfeits these days have proper fineness and proper weight. I don't see that a gold planchet would be that difficult to fake.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Newly made blanks would have a certain "look" to them,
    and I think it would be easy to tell......
    plus, there are other charactoristics that are either
    extremely difficult, or impossible, to duplicate out
    of the U.S. Mint.
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    i imagine there must be more than a few old timers who
    know the process for creating planchests like mom used to make.

    to say they cannot be faked is simply delusional.

    but who would have such audacity to do it? it would have to
    be someone who is connected and can dream up a story.
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't say they couldn't be faked - that's easily done with anything.

    I said that they could probably be determined to be contemporary,
    and not genuine blanks from the U.S. Mint.
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    can someone list the ways one detects an old planchet
    from a new, when they were made from the same exact
    old fashioned process?

    i am noticing people saying it is possible, but without being
    specific.

    i did not mean to be arguementive, but a planchett has to be
    multiple factors easier to fake/duplicate then a minted coin.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,356 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can see someone taking an old circ double eagle, planing off the design, putting it through a roller to get the proper thickness, and then punching out a half eagle planchet. You could then tumble it with some coins and then artificially age it in some way. I've seen too many near perfect fake gold coins to think a blank planchet would be that difficult to fake. It may not get past you, Fred, since you are a foremost expert (you helped authenticate the 5th 1913 Liberty nickel) but it could fool 99% of the dealers out there.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file