Watch out for these ripoff artists...

JustMakesCents

I'm mostly a lurker here, but looking for help...

I was talking with a potential client a couple of months ago when the subject turns to coins. She mentioned that her husband was heavy into buying gold & silver and may be looking to sell some. I told her that when he was ready to sell to give me a call first so that I could help him determine the best way to liquidate.

He just called me a few minutes ago and said that he thinks he has been ripped off by the company he has been buying through. He is going to bring the coins in for me to look at tomorrow, but the company won't talk to him anymore. I'll know more once I see the coins, but I fear the worst. He says he is in for about $400,000.

He told me the company was American Coin Company out of New York. Anybody know anything about this firm? I know it's early in the situation, but l fear he has really been taken. Any recommendations from anyone on the right people to contact if this turns out as bad as it sounds?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff

Update:
It was as bad as I feared. He would be lucky to net $80,000-$100,000 if sold. The $20 St. Gaudens were sold as MS66's. All were AU-MS63 at best. He bought 25 of them @ $2,500 each. $10 Libs for $3,200-$4,200 each and $5 Libs for $1,500 each.

BU and Proof rolls of Franklin halves sold as MS65 and PF68's. It was just absolutely disgusting.

They string people along with promises of having a buyer for their purchases at multiples of what the client paid. Probably closes up shop after they have milked the clients for the maximum money. Attornies are now on the job.

The name of the place is American Coin from Copiague, NY.

airplanenut

Where's that coin posse?

That said, no offense to your client... but $400,000 before you think twice and realize you might be getting taken?

goose3

sounds like a job for that secretive group that does secret things and comes here and pats themselves on the back.

Cnitas

This sounds like a job for the coin posse.
Hopefully they will be here any minute...

Gemineye

Are you sure their not All American Coin in York Pa.............Looks legitt...........................

JustMakesCents

Gemineye,

Hope you are right. I spotted them when I tried to google the company name. I'll know more once I see the coins tomorrow.

Jeff

JadeRareCoin

Yep. I have seen this exact scenario before. He is probably screwed. Fortunately, NY has a really tough attorney general who likes to nail the bad guy. Your client can file a complaint at this website.

But I must ask, "$400,000?". More money than brains?

JadeRareCoin

You can find an article about coin telemarketers in this NY police newsletter

JustMakesCents

Thanks Jade, the website will be a great starting point.

Jeff

JustMakesCents

TTT with the update

Cladiator

ouch

Kip

<< <i>sounds like a job for that secretive group that does secret things and comes here and pats themselves on the back. >>



I dont think they will show.....They broke their arms

pharmer

<< <i>sounds like a job for that secretive group that does secret things and comes here and pats themselves on the back. >>




Well they surely know about this by now, unless they no longer participate here, or even read threads. It will be valuable learning experience to observe how they handle this case, from start to finish.

Myqqy

I wonder if people throw that type of money into other collectibles as investments regularly without checking out the major risks involved?

kranky

Say what you will, the coin posse already has gotten results dealing with this exact scenario. I would certainly pursue that avenue, and the sooner the better. If the place has folded up shop, though, I'm sure he's screwed.

relayer

If he's going to be spending that kind of money for over-graded crap, well he should be buying from me

northcoin

It took several years, but I actually got a partial reimbursement through the efforts of the New York AG's office for some misrepresented coins I had purchased when I was new to numismataics. The scam at the time was to sell multiple coins of a certain date over a period of time with the "promise" that they had other clients willing to pay a premium for completed sets.

pharmer

<< <i>It took several years, but I actually got a partial reimbursement through the efforts of the New York AG's office for some misrepresented coins I had purchased when I was new to numismataics. The scam at the time was to sell multiple coins of a certain date over a period of time with the "promise" that they had other clients willing to pay a premium for completed sets. >>




This sounds interesting. How were the coins "misrepresented"?

pharmer

What's everyone's opinion of buyers' responsibility in these Coin Posse scenarios? Should they inform themselves before spending this kind of money?

MrEureka

What's everyone's opinion of buyers' responsibility in these Coin Posse scenarios? Should they inform themselves before spending this kind of money?

A buyer's laziness does not excuse fraud.

AU58WALKERS

<< <i>sounds like a job for that secretive group that does secret things and comes here and pats themselves on the back. >>



:

bhartman35

<< <i>A buyer's laziness does not excuse fraud. >>





It wouldn't matter if he spent $4,000,000 instead of $400,000. Either the company was telling the truth, or they weren't. In this case, they clearly misrepresented the coins and strung their clients along.

JustMakesCents

Just so there is no confusion... I am not trying to state that the buyer was without fault here. Clearly there were enough red flags to convince most people that there was a scam going on here. However, in my business (Financial Planner), I see how easy it is to let greed override your senses. I have also seen how slick these types of people can be - this group even played on the client by talking about being a "christian company".

I suggested to the attorney to contact Elliott Spitzer ASAP. I also volunteered to contact the "coin posse" if there was any chance that it would be of help.

Jeff

bhartman35

Who is this "coin posse"?? Are horses involved?

pharmer

<<They string people along with promises of having a buyer for their purchases at multiples of what the client paid.>>


If this is fraud, as has been suggested by one poster, what is it when the "victim" gets someone else to buy at multiples of what they paid?

flashbang

<< <i>If this is fraud, as has been suggested by one poster, what is it when the "victim" gets someone else to buy at multiples of what they paid? >>




Dumb and dumber?

pharmer

If the "victim" here had indeed found someone to pay him multiples as he had been told, he wouldn't be dumb. Sounds like from the info given that he wanted to be the one making the killing in the end.

northcoin

Pfarmer - to answer your question, I actually got a call from New York asking me if I had purchased coins from the subject seller. I located the coins and took them to a coin dealer who appraised them as being well below the represented grades. This information was then forwarded on the the New York office investigating the company. These were coins that I had purchased years ago before I became a serious collector.

FullStrike

One term comes to mind - easy come easy go. When a person has money just sitting around that maybe they didn't have to slave to get, they are vulnerable to a lot of scams.

Another term- a fool and his money are soon parted. What exactly is a money fool? Anyone who doesn't protect his money and allows it to flow out a little too easily.

Loosing money is all just a part of the big game. After a few losses, hopefooly the "victim" gets educated. If nothing else, they should learn to seek advise BEFORE throwing away the cash.

Boom

Man, that really sucks!!

bestclser1

Many telemarketing operations work like this.They take advantage of those who dont know better.

roadrunner

That's pretty much how the major financial markets work as well.
Little guy loses 90% of the time, big fish survive and get bigger.
$400K is bus fare compared to the number and amount of scams going on in the stock market these days. As more and more derivative schemes go bust (Refco, GE, Fannie, .....) the picture will become clearer.

roadrunner

lava

Sounds like a version of a Ponzi scheme. For those of you unfamiliar with Mr. Ponzi, you might google it.

librtyhead

I take it that all were raw.