Why is there an ANR requirement to view lots in person if bidding in person-- see QDB's new Dave's N

Longacre

There is a new Dave's Notes report on the ANR website. I really like these reports because they are usually pretty insightful. In the most recent update, QDB writes as follows:

"One of my favorite comments recently: “When I get an ANR catalogue, I can bid in your auction without looking at the lots, even though I attend in person.” Of course, if one attends in person, one should look at the lots, a requirement per our Terms of Sale. However, it is nice to know that the photographs and printed descriptions convey enough information to be very useful."


I tried to find the Terms & Conditions on their website but I could not. As surprising as this sounds, I don't carry ANR auction catalogs around with me (although QDB's Type Coin book is a permanent passenger in my bag). Does anyone know:

(1) Why a lot would need to be viewed in person as a condition of bidding live in the auction?
(2) What is the difference between bidding online (and not seeing the coin in person), and raising your paw in an auction room (and not seeing the coin in person)?
(3) How is the lot viewing requirement enforced? How can ANR tell if I viewed Lot #123 at the lot viewing, rather than merely chatting with the pretty girl at the table (or asking for but skipping viewing a particular coin on my lot viewing sheet)?
(4) I remember signing something when I viewed lots in the past. Does that document contain language that I am deemed to have personally viewed each lot that I ultimately bid on in person?
(5) Why is personal attendance at an auction held to a higher standard than online bidding? In the event of a dispute, does the live bidder have lesser rights than an online bidder?

If anyone can post the Terms & Conditions, that would be great. I would like to read the actual language.

Barndog

LINK

kranky

It's hard for someone to refuse to pay for a coin or to ask for a refund, if they have seen the coin in hand. It helps to squelch "buyer's remorse".

If you've viewed the coin, you have no reason to not want it if you win.
If you bid in person, you had ample opportunity to view the coin.
You agree to view the coins if you bid in person.

No way for a floor buyer to justify not taking a coin.

OKbustchaser

From the TOS...

All items offered in this auction catalog are guaranteed to be genuine. Buyer agrees that except for questions of authenticity, there is no right of return for any reason whatsoever for any coin certified by any third party certification service. Further, Buyer agrees that except for questions of authenticity, there is no right of return for lots nor shall ANR accept any returned lots from any floor bidder or any bidder who examined the lots prior to the sale. Mail, FAX and Internet bidders may make return requests within three days of the receipt of the lot. Coins must be returned to ANR’s offices in Wolfeboro, N.H. within 30 days from the date of the auction. Any coin which has been physically altered or removed from its container or holder shall not be returnable nor accepted by ANR. (emphasis is mine)

Longacre

OKbustchaser-- thanks for the highlighted language. It seems that because of the disjunctive, if you are a floor bidder, then you have no right to a return. The way that I am reading it is that it is irrelevant whether you viewed the lots or not (because of the use of "or" in the sentence). So I guess there is no requirement to view the lots in person.

OKbustchaser

I think it is probably worded that way to cover people who examine the lots in person but do not attend the live auction. Live bidders are likely assumed to have looked at the lots (and therefore unable to return).

WTCG

Viewing the lots in advance solves the issue when winning bidders want to return a lot after the sale using the excuse that the catalog/ picture descriptions were inaccurate.

RYK

Is there recourse to return a coin if you have not seen the coin in person (ie. viewed coin on internet and bid online)? If there is, I was not aware...

WTCG

<< <i>Is there recourse to return a coin if you have not seen the coin in person (ie. viewed coin on internet and bid online)? If there is, I was not aware... >>



Typically a return will be allowed to a collector who did not view the lot in person. Dealers cannot return lots under any circumstances.

majorbigtime

<< <i>From the TOS...

All items offered in this auction catalog are guaranteed to be genuine. Buyer agrees that except for questions of authenticity, there is no right of return for any reason whatsoever for any coin certified by any third party certification service. Further, Buyer agrees that except for questions of authenticity, there is no right of return for lots nor shall ANR accept any returned lots from any floor bidder or any bidder who examined the lots prior to the sale. Mail, FAX and Internet bidders may make return requests within three days of the receipt of the lot. Coins must be returned to ANR’s offices in Wolfeboro, N.H. within 30 days from the date of the auction. Any coin which has been physically altered or removed from its container or holder shall not be returnable nor accepted by ANR. (emphasis is mine) >>






It doesn't make much of a difference as far as fakes are concerned, there is no definitive PCGS guaranty of authenticiyt!

roadrunner

If you've viewed the coin, you have no reason to not want it if you win. If you bid in person, you had ample opportunity to view the coin. You agree to view the coins if you bid in person.
No way for a floor buyer to justify not taking

Well not exactly.

In the mid-to later 80's I recall viewing a NIOF auction in NY City. The coin I wanted most was an orig raw gem bust quarter MS65. I must have looked at the coin for 5 minutes (2 separate looks). I was prepared to pay up to $8K for it. I bid on the floor and won the lot, the only one I got. When it was shipped a week later I was horrified to see an old and deep scratch completely bisecting the obverse. That was a $3K min. scratch. There was no way I could have missed anything that obvious with the unaided eye or under 5X magnification. I ran it by several other dealers who also did the auction and none of them had any notes about a scratch. The coin did generally appear to be the same coin (no auction photo on this one) I'm almost positive is was switched. In any event I ate the coin, sold it immediately for a few thousand less and moved on.

There are possible reasons to not want what you bid on. It may not be the same coin. And in almost EVERY case on raw coins, you WILL find more marks and hits once you get it home. Coins almost never improve after auction viewing.

roadrunner