Proof Positive That BGS Standards Have Decreased...
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
After I saw this auction/sale for a 2001 SP Authentic Albert Pujols BGS 10 (here is the
link) with all four subgrades of 10, I gave the idea of subgrades further thought.
2001 SP Authentic Albert Pujols BGS 10
As many of you can attest, there has been a rapid influx of high end BGS 10 cards, e.g.
2001 Bowman Albert Pujols
1984 Fleer Update Roger Clemens
1985 Topps Mark McGwire
1986 Topps Tiffany Barry Bonds
Now, the majority of these cards were very recently graded and/or are one (or even two) of a kind.
Further, as I've stated in the past, I distinctly recall a time where it was practically impossible to get
a SINGLE subgrade of 10, much less the requisite three subgrades of 10 for an overall grade of 10.
Now, I'll give Beckett the benefit of the doubt and concede that maybe the cards being submitted today
are truly a higher grade than cards submitted yesterday. However, even given this fact, I don't quite
understand the development of the centering subgrade.
Notwithstanding the issue of trimming/sheet cut cards, shouldn't the centering subgrade be FIXED, e.g.
the passage of time cannot affect a card's centering, unlike corners becoming rounded, edges becoming
dented or the surface deteriorating? In other words, once a card is printed and "assigned" a centering
grade, whatever the centering is now will be the same 50 years from now. For example, I wouldn't think
it would be all that extraordinary to find a 1933 Goudey or a T206 with subgrades of 9.5 for centering
and 1s or 2s for edges, corners and surface.
So with this in mind, "back in the day," I still didn't recall seeing any 10 subgrades for centering. Does
this mean all the cards with 10 centering are all sheet cut? I guess one way to test this theory is to
see (while you are searching/browsing through ebay) if there are any cards that have 10 subgrade
where the subgrades were printed on the back of the slab instead of the front. I don't know when Beckett
started putting subgrades on the front of the cards, but I know that virtually every card with a 10 subgrade
have the subgrades printed on the front.
/s/ JackWESQ
link) with all four subgrades of 10, I gave the idea of subgrades further thought.
2001 SP Authentic Albert Pujols BGS 10
As many of you can attest, there has been a rapid influx of high end BGS 10 cards, e.g.
2001 Bowman Albert Pujols
1984 Fleer Update Roger Clemens
1985 Topps Mark McGwire
1986 Topps Tiffany Barry Bonds
Now, the majority of these cards were very recently graded and/or are one (or even two) of a kind.
Further, as I've stated in the past, I distinctly recall a time where it was practically impossible to get
a SINGLE subgrade of 10, much less the requisite three subgrades of 10 for an overall grade of 10.
Now, I'll give Beckett the benefit of the doubt and concede that maybe the cards being submitted today
are truly a higher grade than cards submitted yesterday. However, even given this fact, I don't quite
understand the development of the centering subgrade.
Notwithstanding the issue of trimming/sheet cut cards, shouldn't the centering subgrade be FIXED, e.g.
the passage of time cannot affect a card's centering, unlike corners becoming rounded, edges becoming
dented or the surface deteriorating? In other words, once a card is printed and "assigned" a centering
grade, whatever the centering is now will be the same 50 years from now. For example, I wouldn't think
it would be all that extraordinary to find a 1933 Goudey or a T206 with subgrades of 9.5 for centering
and 1s or 2s for edges, corners and surface.
So with this in mind, "back in the day," I still didn't recall seeing any 10 subgrades for centering. Does
this mean all the cards with 10 centering are all sheet cut? I guess one way to test this theory is to
see (while you are searching/browsing through ebay) if there are any cards that have 10 subgrade
where the subgrades were printed on the back of the slab instead of the front. I don't know when Beckett
started putting subgrades on the front of the cards, but I know that virtually every card with a 10 subgrade
have the subgrades printed on the front.
/s/ JackWESQ
0
Comments
<< <i>So with this in mind, "back in the day," I still didn't recall seeing any 10 subgrades for centering. Does >>
. I can not imagine that there exists any BGS card that is graded with 10's as subs that was not a sheet cut card. That is what Beckett specializes in.
<< <i>
<< <i>So with this in mind, "back in the day," I still didn't recall seeing any 10 subgrades for centering. Does >>
. I can not imagine that there exists any BGS card that is graded with 10's as subs that was not a sheet cut card. That is what Beckett specializes in.
This thread started with serious intend---please keep it that way, as there are FAR too many bashing threads already, and few or none with actual, collected thought.
Looking for Jonny Gomes cards, especially Triple Threads and printing plates. Will consider all cards, though. Got something? Contact me at c_u_l_1@yahoo.com
<< <i>
<< <i>So with this in mind, "back in the day," I still didn't recall seeing any 10 subgrades for centering. Does >>
. I can not imagine that there exists any BGS card that is graded with 10's as subs that was not a sheet cut card. That is what Beckett specializes in.
OH YEAH, SO PSA GRADES HAND CUT CARDS FROM THE FIFTIES SO IS THAT BAD TOO???......GIVE ME A BREAK. IT IS ALL SUBJECTIVE MY FREIND. EXPLAIN TO ME THE DIFFERENCE IN VALUE AND QUALITY BETWEEN A SHEETCUT MODERN CARD AND A HAND CUT 50'S CARD?????? GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. CHAZ
<< <i>After I saw this auction/sale for a 2001 SP Authentic Albert Pujols BGS 10 (here is the
link) with all four subgrades of 10, I gave the idea of subgrades further thought.
2001 SP Authentic Albert Pujols BGS 10
As many of you can attest, there has been a rapid influx of high end BGS 10 cards, e.g.
2001 Bowman Albert Pujols
1984 Fleer Update Roger Clemens
1985 Topps Mark McGwire
1986 Topps Tiffany Barry Bonds
Now, the majority of these cards were very recently graded and/or are one (or even two) of a kind.
Further, as I've stated in the past, I distinctly recall a time where it was practically impossible to get
a SINGLE subgrade of 10, much less the requisite three subgrades of 10 for an overall grade of 10.
Now, I'll give Beckett the benefit of the doubt and concede that maybe the cards being submitted today
are truly a higher grade than cards submitted yesterday. However, even given this fact, I don't quite
understand the development of the centering subgrade.
Notwithstanding the issue of trimming/sheet cut cards, shouldn't the centering subgrade be FIXED, e.g.
the passage of time cannot affect a card's centering, unlike corners becoming rounded, edges becoming
dented or the surface deteriorating? In other words, once a card is printed and "assigned" a centering
grade, whatever the centering is now will be the same 50 years from now. For example, I wouldn't think
it would be all that extraordinary to find a 1933 Goudey or a T206 with subgrades of 9.5 for centering
and 1s or 2s for edges, corners and surface.
So with this in mind, "back in the day," I still didn't recall seeing any 10 subgrades for centering. Does
this mean all the cards with 10 centering are all sheet cut? I guess one way to test this theory is to
see (while you are searching/browsing through ebay) if there are any cards that have 10 subgrade
where the subgrades were printed on the back of the slab instead of the front. I don't know when Beckett
started putting subgrades on the front of the cards, but I know that virtually every card with a 10 subgrade
have the subgrades printed on the front.
/s/ JackWESQ >>
OH YEAH, SO PSA GRADES HAND CUT CARDS FROM THE FIFTIES SO IS THAT BAD TOO???......GIVE ME A BREAK. IT IS ALL SUBJECTIVE MY FREIND. EXPLAIN TO ME THE DIFFERENCE IN VALUE AND QUALITY BETWEEN A SHEETCUT MODERN CARD AND A HAND CUT 50'S CARD?????? AND BECKETT DOES NOT GRADE TRIMMED CARDS, I KNOW THIS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. CHAZ
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So with this in mind, "back in the day," I still didn't recall seeing any 10 subgrades for centering. Does >>
. I can not imagine that there exists any BGS card that is graded with 10's as subs that was not a sheet cut card. That is what Beckett specializes in.
This thread started with serious intend---please keep it that way, as there are FAR too many bashing threads already, and few or none with actual, collected thought. >>
I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER LWMM. CHAZ
<< <i>OH YEAH, SO PSA GRADES HAND CUT CARDS FROM THE FIFTIES SO IS THAT BAD TOO???......GIVE ME A BREAK. IT IS ALL SUBJECTIVE MY FREIND. EXPLAIN TO ME THE DIFFERENCE IN VALUE AND QUALITY BETWEEN A SHEETCUT MODERN CARD AND A HAND CUT 50'S CARD?????? AND BECKETT DOES NOT GRADE TRIMMED CARDS, I KNOW THIS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. CHAZ >>
the difference is that the hand-cut 50's cards you refer to were meant to be cut.. the early 1960's cereal cards for example, were all meant to be cut by the end user (the person who buys a box of cereal or whatever).. the modern sheetcut cards were generally meant to be factory-cut and distributed in pack form.. there is nothing really wrong with modern sheet-cut cards, but many people just dont like the idea of a card that was cut from a sheet last week.. i'm kinda neutral on the matter, i dont think i'd mind having a nice sheet-cut card in my collection..
and also, you're an idiot..
<< <i>
<< <i>OH YEAH, SO PSA GRADES HAND CUT CARDS FROM THE FIFTIES SO IS THAT BAD TOO???......GIVE ME A BREAK. IT IS ALL SUBJECTIVE MY FREIND. EXPLAIN TO ME THE DIFFERENCE IN VALUE AND QUALITY BETWEEN A SHEETCUT MODERN CARD AND A HAND CUT 50'S CARD?????? AND BECKETT DOES NOT GRADE TRIMMED CARDS, I KNOW THIS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. CHAZ >>
the difference is that the hand-cut 50's cards you refer to were meant to be cut.. the early 1960's cereal cards for example, were all meant to be cut by the end user (the person who buys a box of cereal or whatever).. the modern sheetcut cards were generally meant to be factory-cut and distributed in pack form.. there is nothing really wrong with modern sheet-cut cards, but many people just dont like the idea of a card that was cut from a sheet last week.. i'm kinda neutral on the matter, i dont think i'd mind having a nice sheet-cut card in my collection..
and also, you're an idiot.. >>
........MEANT TO BE CUT, WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP.......GIVE ME A BREAK ....... THE BOXES THAT THE CARDS WERE CUT FROM WOULD BE MORE ALOT MORE VALUBLE LEFT UNTOUCHED . CHAZ
<< <i>and also, you're an idiot.. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>and also, you're an idiot.. >>
IS THAT ALL YOU HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE????????????? YEAH, YOU ADD ALOT TURKEY. CHAZ
What does your CL key look like, Chaz?
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Hey Chaz, when you were playing basketball today-- did you hit your head on the rim again?? Please go back and crawl into whatever hole you came out of. By the way, feel free to attack me as this is going to be my only post tonight.
As far as I can recall, those mid 80s OPC hockey sheetcuts that Martin-sport and Hockeyauctions have/had all had either 9.5 or 10 for centering. Again, does it have to be 50/50 on the back as well to get the 10 for centering for bordered cards? Seems like a coin toss to me.
Also, those high end examples JW brought up.....well I just think they all had a little help along the way
NOT CHAZ
levity
julen
RIP GURU
what were the dotted lines and the words...............cut along dotted line for then?
Steve
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>As usual Chaz is back with nothing to offer. Are you the same Chaz that used to run those lame shows in Reading PA and used to own that terrible shop in West reading. i know from previous posts you are from the north east possibly PA so i was just wondering. if that is you know wonder your posts are so stupid you know absolutely nothing about cards. Also BGS just doesnt grade sheet cut cards they grade flat out trimmed cards. Also genius Psa notes on a holder when a card is hand cut, and if you cant tell the difference between say a 60s post cereal card cut from a cereal box (as was intended by the manufacturer) and a gretzky opc laser cut from a sheet you need more help then you can get from these boards. >>
Hey super genius - I was just at the Fort Washington show and took a 59' Koufax ( I knew it was trimmed) to both GAI (Mike Baker pregraded it super genius) and then I took it over to Beckett ( Andy Broome pregraded it) and both said it was trimmed so there. Oh it's real hard to tell that the card has been hand cut..... give me a break. You don't like sheet cut cards, that's your problem. How about hand cut cards, you like them? Don't knock others (Beckett) because they do something you don't like and make a very general statement that all real nice modern cards graded by BGS are sheetcut. Grow up. CHAZ
<< <i>Chaz
what were the dotted lines and the words...............cut along dotted line for then?
Steve >>
That's the whole point. Everybody cut them so what's the difference between that and a trimmed (hand cut with an exacto blade) for a vintage or a modern card today? It is all subjective. You don't like sheet cut cards, you don't like hand cut cards ? It's all in the eye of the beholder. Why knock someone else (they spent good money for sheet cut card) when both hand cut and sheet cut cards have not been cut from the factory. That's all I'm saying. Chaz
<< <i>Chaz
what were the dotted lines and the words...............cut along dotted line for then?
Steve >>
ARE YOU A ROBOT STEVE??? JUST BECAUSE THEY SAID TO CUT THEM MEANS YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE CUT THEM. THE BOX HAS MORE VALUE LEFT UNTOUCHED. IT'S ALL SUBJECTIVE, HAND CUT VS SHEET CUT. CHAZ