Large size vs. Small size Capped Bust Coinage

tjkillian

I'm having slight difficulting with Capped Bust coinage. When did they start using closed collar for each of the Capped Bust coins? Are they the same dates for the large vs. small coins? Does the steam press come in to play in the coins other than 1836 Capped Bust half dollars? When did they use the steam press for the half dimes, dimes and quarters?

Why no "large size" Capped Bust half dimes?

Tom

coinlieutenant

Large size bust dimes started in 1828...both types exist that year....small and large dates for small and large size respectively.

Quarters last year of large size in 1828...no small until 1831.

coinlieutenant

I dont know for sure the answers to the rest of questions...I think I do, but dont want to pass bad gouge.


J

construct

The small size halves start at the same time as the reeded edge--1836. Most 1836s are large size, lettered edge.

There are no large size capped bust half dimes because they didn't start making them until they were already transitioning to the small size.

Conder101

And apparently they used close collars for the reeded edge half dimes, dimes and quarters from the beginning. (Or at least collars that were "close" enough that they were used to form the reeded edge via the expantion of the planchet. Reeded edges were NOT applied by the Castaining machine.)

construct

<< <i>And apparently they used close collars for the reeded edge half dimes, dimes and quarters from the beginning. (Or at least collars that were "close" enough that they were used to form the reeded edge via the expantion of the planchet. Reeded edges were NOT applied by the Castaining machine.) >>



I am surprised that Conder101 doesn't know for sure whether collars were used on the large size quarters dimes and half dimes. I had assumed that the variable diameter of the large size coins was a result of using no collar, but now that I think about it, I remember hearing the earlier coinage described as open collar. The innovation was the closed collar. In what way were they "open," and how did they differ from the "closed" collar?

slumlord98

<< <i>The innovation was the closed collar. In what way were they "open," and how did they differ from the "closed" collar? >>



No one knows for sure what the open collar looked like, as there is no survivor and no images. The feeder mechanism is another of these mysteries. On some error coins, including a double struck 1803 half dollar I saw at Baltimore, there is an impression of what is believed to be the collar, but it is faint. Overlays are being made of this and I'll post then when they get here.

Conder101

I said apparently because for a long time the standard belief was that all of the early coinage was struck using open collars until the introduction of the steam press. Then about a decade or two ago it was realized that certain varieties of the bust dimes I believe it was , had a distinctive double reed on the edge. And that doubled reed always appeared in the same position relative to the devices. This meant that it had to be the result of a close collar that imparted the reeding during the act of coinage.

(By the way the proper terminoloy is open and close collars, not closed collar. Open as used refering to the collar means that the collar positions the planchet on the die but does not restain the expantion of the planchet during the strike. As far as the planchet is concerned it is "out in the open". The collar does still form a complete circle or ring around the planchet so it is not "open" in the sense of having a gap in the collar. The 'close" collar is the opposite of the open collar. it fits tight or "close" around the planchet to restrain the expantion. Both of these collars are "closed" collars in that there are no gaps or openings in the side of the collar.)

If the reeded edge had been placed on the edge using the Castaining machine, that double reed would have shown up at anywhere around the perimiter of the coin at random. This then lead to the question "When did they stop using the Castaining machine and start using close collars.

Brad Karloff researched this through the examination of error coins. There are no reeded edge blank planchets known, broadstruck coins do not show reeded edges, partial collars show reeds on the parts in the collar and no reeds on the parts outside the collar. If here is a distintive feature on an edge it always shows up relative to the same position on the obv/rev, and finally there are no reeded edge coins that show multiple or overlapped reeds like there are overlapped letterered edges. Brad has traced the use of the close collar all the way back to the to the beginning of the silver, reeded edge coinages. I would suspect that they did the same with the gold coinages as well, but it is a lot harder to trace them back using the errors because they are so rare for the early gold coins.

You asked, you get a dissertation.

Baley

thread of the day, thanks to the participants