The 1935-P DDR Buffalo - The Story of a RARE coin
BuffaloIronTail
Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭✭✭
The United States Mint in America suffered along with the population during the Great Depression (1929-1933). A major portion of its' workforce was slowly and methodically laid off as a result of the lack of the need for coinage. Each painful year, each depressing week, the furloughs went out. So did the employees. A lot went out and never came back. They and their families faded into the huge cauldron of despair that gripped the Nation back then. Penniless, hungry, luckless multitudes left to anywhere and everywhere to find work. The dies and tools of their trade sat unused at workstations all over the Nation. Some just plain dissapeared.
Coins sat in vaults, unused, piled up in bags and bins until slowly, methodically, the orders began to pick up. Although the Nation was never really fully recovered until World War II began in 1941, by 1934 the worst was over.
When the Mint tried to call back laid-off employees, it stands to reason that a percentage of them could not be reached for the reasons cited above. New and untrained workers tried to fill the void.
The coinage quality of the early to mid 1930's shows the problem that the Mint had during this period. The die steel used to strike coins was better by leaps and bounds than at any time prior to 1928. Care had been taken to properly harden dies before use, and experimentation with chromium-plated dies was found to be a success in prolonging die life.
But the coins suffered in other areas. Poor planchet stock, hurried production and coining, and striking pressure still produced lower than average quality specimens.
Note also the huge jump in re-punched mintmarks during this period. Clearly it was a skilled and practiced talent to be able to hold the mintmark puncheon in the same position between hammer hits.
The chaos of the time produced a rather quite notable doubled die in 1935....the 1935-P Doubled Die Reverse Buffalo Nickel.
The 1935 DDR was given a Cherrypickers Guide number - FS-018, and has an even more pronounced doubling that the popular 1917-P (DDR-1, FS-016.4), which was described as "prominent" by David Lange in his Buffalo Nickel book.
I would not hesitate to call it the most prominent reverse doubled-die in the Buffalo Series.
This one is collectable........though its' popularity is rising and so is its' price. I tried and failed to acquire one a couple years ago that I found on E-Bay. It was a F-12 coin, and I thought my max (high at the time) bid of $50.00 would secure it.
I was wrong, and I'll let the art of E-Bay "Sniping" live for a future story.
The reason that this DDR is becoming so desirable stems from the recent addition of it to price guides and references to it hobby-wide. It is poised for future jumps in price and demand from collectors everywhere.
The run of the mill 1935-P Buffalo Nickel is common in every grade up to and including MS-65. Its rarity rating is R-1 (the lowest) for every grade up to 64, and only an R-2 in 65. The population reports for the DDR attest to its rarity, though. Very few have been submitted in mint state. Most submitted center around Fine to Very Fine.
This leads me to believe that this coin was not found till later. It also leads me to the conclusion that the DDR my have been discovered during production, and the die pulled. With the relative ease of finding mint state examples of 1935-P regular strikes, THIS ONE is just darn RARE to locate.
Here is the scoop on POPS.....incomplete but the best I can do as I do not have access to the current PCGS report:
PCGS: 5 MS-64 - nothing higher
NGC: VG: 3, F: 13, XF-40: 5, XF-45: 3, AU-50: 1, AU-53: 4, AU-55: 5, AU-58: 6, MS-62: 2, MS-64: 1. TOTAL: 59
So there are only 6 coins at MS-64 - none higher.
Coinuniverse lists the current price for this coin as:
G - $40.00
F - $100.00
EF - $750.00
AU - $1500.00
MS60 - $3500.00
MS-63 - $10,000.00
MS-64 - $18,500.00
MS-65 - $35.000.00*
*The only Buffs higher in 65 are the following: (why a 65 price is listed for 35-DDR is unknown, none got that high in POPS):
1914/3
1916 DDO
1918/7-D
1918-S
1920-S
1925-S
1926-S
The 1937-D 3-leg in 65 goes for $32,500.00. A $2,500.00 less bargain.
Keep hunting little kiddies, you might just find a cornucopia of riches among the un-searched and un-noticed survivors.
Hope this helps..........
Pete
Coins sat in vaults, unused, piled up in bags and bins until slowly, methodically, the orders began to pick up. Although the Nation was never really fully recovered until World War II began in 1941, by 1934 the worst was over.
When the Mint tried to call back laid-off employees, it stands to reason that a percentage of them could not be reached for the reasons cited above. New and untrained workers tried to fill the void.
The coinage quality of the early to mid 1930's shows the problem that the Mint had during this period. The die steel used to strike coins was better by leaps and bounds than at any time prior to 1928. Care had been taken to properly harden dies before use, and experimentation with chromium-plated dies was found to be a success in prolonging die life.
But the coins suffered in other areas. Poor planchet stock, hurried production and coining, and striking pressure still produced lower than average quality specimens.
Note also the huge jump in re-punched mintmarks during this period. Clearly it was a skilled and practiced talent to be able to hold the mintmark puncheon in the same position between hammer hits.
The chaos of the time produced a rather quite notable doubled die in 1935....the 1935-P Doubled Die Reverse Buffalo Nickel.
The 1935 DDR was given a Cherrypickers Guide number - FS-018, and has an even more pronounced doubling that the popular 1917-P (DDR-1, FS-016.4), which was described as "prominent" by David Lange in his Buffalo Nickel book.
I would not hesitate to call it the most prominent reverse doubled-die in the Buffalo Series.
This one is collectable........though its' popularity is rising and so is its' price. I tried and failed to acquire one a couple years ago that I found on E-Bay. It was a F-12 coin, and I thought my max (high at the time) bid of $50.00 would secure it.
I was wrong, and I'll let the art of E-Bay "Sniping" live for a future story.
The reason that this DDR is becoming so desirable stems from the recent addition of it to price guides and references to it hobby-wide. It is poised for future jumps in price and demand from collectors everywhere.
The run of the mill 1935-P Buffalo Nickel is common in every grade up to and including MS-65. Its rarity rating is R-1 (the lowest) for every grade up to 64, and only an R-2 in 65. The population reports for the DDR attest to its rarity, though. Very few have been submitted in mint state. Most submitted center around Fine to Very Fine.
This leads me to believe that this coin was not found till later. It also leads me to the conclusion that the DDR my have been discovered during production, and the die pulled. With the relative ease of finding mint state examples of 1935-P regular strikes, THIS ONE is just darn RARE to locate.
Here is the scoop on POPS.....incomplete but the best I can do as I do not have access to the current PCGS report:
PCGS: 5 MS-64 - nothing higher
NGC: VG: 3, F: 13, XF-40: 5, XF-45: 3, AU-50: 1, AU-53: 4, AU-55: 5, AU-58: 6, MS-62: 2, MS-64: 1. TOTAL: 59
So there are only 6 coins at MS-64 - none higher.
Coinuniverse lists the current price for this coin as:
G - $40.00
F - $100.00
EF - $750.00
AU - $1500.00
MS60 - $3500.00
MS-63 - $10,000.00
MS-64 - $18,500.00
MS-65 - $35.000.00*
*The only Buffs higher in 65 are the following: (why a 65 price is listed for 35-DDR is unknown, none got that high in POPS):
1914/3
1916 DDO
1918/7-D
1918-S
1920-S
1925-S
1926-S
The 1937-D 3-leg in 65 goes for $32,500.00. A $2,500.00 less bargain.
Keep hunting little kiddies, you might just find a cornucopia of riches among the un-searched and un-noticed survivors.
Hope this helps..........
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
0
Comments
Guy
It is apparent on the words "FIVE CENTS"
and "E PLURIBUS UNUM" on the reverse
Pete
Thanks
Do you know when the first one was reported?
Anyone got a pic of the reverse to share?
I was not able to get info on the discovery coin. Wish I knew....maybe someone here will read this and reply.
The only pics are in Langes' Buff Book.
Pete
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>1935 ddr 1-R-IV, fs-018, anacs vf20 >>
Dang -- even in the lower grades it shows up big time with that deep notching and separation on the letters of FIVE CENTS. That's a tuff one Bill -- congrats! Oh well -- I can still dream ...
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>LickThose Stamps..........
I was not able to get info on the discovery coin. Wish I knew....maybe someone here will read this and reply.
The only pics are in Langes' Buff Book.
Pete >>
Thanks Pete. My copy of the book has shipped, but I have not received it yet.
It just goes to show how after a little wear, and some die clashing, the doubling is not really fully apparent.
Glad you chose to include your pics for this post.
It's probably why, without real close examination, that a lot of these are missed..............
Pete
Thanks for the thread.
I have pics of the full coin on my camera, I'll try to remember to post them tomorrow. I'm waiting for a couple more coins to make a minimum submission to PCGS, this coin is definitely headed west.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Silverman68, jfoot13, GAB, ricman, Smittys, scrapman1077, RyGuy, Connecticoin, Meltdown, VikingDude, Peaceman, Patches and more.
An MS65 DOES exist-a PCGS MS65 sold at auction-I believe by Heritage, but Im not sure about that-for $32,200 in January 2004. Why it isn't listed in the POP report is a mystery.
Interesting observation, koynekwest. I've only ever owned two of them, one in Fine and this coin, both purchased attributed. With years of searching at shows I've never found even one. I'm sure the local dealer who always cherrypicks this stuff at shows has found many more, but he's too sharp to put them all out in his case at once.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Using today's grading standards, I'd say your coin would grade XF40.
What part of the country are you from? I think it is REGIONALLY much more common in certain places than in others, but with the increased awareness of the variety (especially by dealers) it's not an easy find ANYWHERE anymore. The bulk of the ones I found were 10-15 years ago, but I cherried an XF not too long ago.
http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-varieties/buffalo-nickels/1936-ddr-5c-fs-801-5425
from
http://blog.davidlawrence.com/index.php/buffalo-nickels-1935-doubled-die-reverse/
<< <i>How do you post photo's or post links to live internet sites? >>
Any time that you use the reply button in a thread here, or start a new thread here, there are a series of buttons at the top margin of the message text box that will be available to use in order to paste the URL of another website or URL of an image file in to the message text box. Use the test forum to acclimate yourself to this process.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>How people spot this stuff is incredible to me. I doubt I'll ever reach that level of expertise. >>
These coins are for selling loupes.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
<< <i>Well, there are some not too well known Buff double dies that are real monsters. Here is one of them...
http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-varieties/buffalo-nickels/1936-ddr-5c-fs-801-5425 >>
That coin shows multiple mis-hubbings-at least four. There must have been an original roll or two of 1936 nickels put away because there is a number of Mint state pieces known, including several MS66s. I cherried an NGC MS67 that was later re-slabbed (not by me) in a PCGS MS66 slab. Still, overall it's a pretty rare coin and one of the nicest doubled (quintupled?) dies in the series IMO.
nice read. nice bump.
.
<< <i>I omitted something in my reply-at least a couple of original rolls containing SEVERAL of the variety-certainly not solid rolls (doubled/multiple dies don't come that way.) >>
Koynekwest...
Perhaps you can help me figure out what 1936 ddr gem+ coins are out there.
The PCGS Coinfacts plate coin appears to be an MS66 Stage A Early Die State coin.
The NGC Variety page DDR coin is my NGC66 Stage B. and it appears well struck and EDS.
Pulling up both photos side by side will give some interesting perspective as to the Stage differences in the reverse die.
I understand that there was an NGC67 that was sent to PCGS and crossed over at MS66.
I also understand that there was a NGC66 that was sent to PCGS and it crossed at MS66.
I believe that those 2 coins are now in the #1 and #2 ranked Buffalo variety sets.
I see a 3rd MS66 in the pop count at PCGS.
Is that a legitimate 3rd coin, or is that a crack out and upgrade attempt?
Do you know?
And, Do you know what Stage the non coinfacts PCGS MS66 coin is?
Of course as I am sure you are well aware, the Stage B has the reverse die crack thru the upper left portion of United, and the obverse die has the U shaped Whiskerchin die clash. I am trying to track down how many of the gems actually exist, and in what Stage.
Also, with respect to findiing rollls of variety coins, in 1936 the Mint produced around 119 million Buffalo nickels.
I presume that the die metals still used in 1936 would have allowed for decent enough diie life of around 300 thousand coins per die or so.
In 1936, if the mint struck 300K or so coins from each nickel die and they manufactured 119 million coins, they needed to make 400 dies or so.
Given that the current known and combined certified population of 1936 GEM+ MS66 or better Buffalo nickels is now around 2100 coins or so, math would seem to indicate that maybe 4-6 gem+ MS66 or better certified coins will eventually be accounted for... and, we seem close to that number.
But, I also notice that there just is not a very high pop count on this variety coin in any known grade.
Could it be because the reverse die crack caused a Die Break, and the die was forced into early retirement?
That could explain it's decades long overall rarity.
The appearance and close examination of an even later die State coin could shed some light on the subject.
In any case, it is a fun coin to examine.
Any info to help fill in the blanks would be most welcomed.
Thanx
NGC MS66 F.S.801 DDR
This is a Stage B.
Seems that I saw many more 1936 DDO coins than DDR ones.
Always passed on the DDO cuz of the die state.
There is a real nice one that did pop and sell. Nice DDO.
Does your MS63 coin look to be earlier die state or later than the posted NGC MS66 coin?
I appreciate your help...Thanx
Neca-PM me if you'd like to discuss these in more detail.
I will search my old emails and see if I can track down the other 66.