When to bid MS money for a VF Barber coin ?

dtkk49a

I watched this auction after it was discussed here in another forum post. I thought the coin would sell for less. Obviously, people with intimate knowledge of the series knew otherwise. Very interesting. I need to start watching more Barber half auctions.

Bear

Their were 5 Barber Half dollars in VF-30 to XF condition.

several collectors wereffighting to complete their collections

and blew thru what I had considered appropriate bids. It would seem

that origonal non tampered with Barbers in high condition

are underpriced in all the guides. As I was unable to catch the mob

on the other coins, I settled for a really lovely 1910 Half . One would think

this to be a coin easily acquired but it is not. In addition the coins were

being auctioned by a knowledgable and conservative grading collector who

gave the most accurate personal evaluations of his PCGS Halves I have ever

seen. The mantra is QUALITY< QUALITY, QUALITY. As coins of this quality rarely

come up, even in VF-30 to XF-45 one must throw away the price charts in a

bidding war.


All the above being said, one must still be selective in what you case and how

many coins you chase. While one can play this game on a few coins in a modest

price range, it is not wise to do this on every coin and all the time.

Tarmac

There were a number of Barber 50c sold in the past week for moon money. Either the demand has skyrocketed as prices on these inVF-XF have nearly 3x in the past 18mos or it's the registry effect. Either way, the prices for MS coins in the series look like a super bargain [many with MS64+ pops of under 24] when compared to the VF-XF winning bids.

rhedden

I remember a few years ago when next to nobody (including myself) would pay much over Bid/Ask for a "P" mint Barber unless it was a 1913-14-15. How times have changed. Competition is what drives prices up... and I'm willing to bet that even more people jump into the fray as these coins become more popular. They are very scarce, and it's about time they are getting the attention they deserve.

USCGCraig

dtkk49a and Tarmac,

I challenge you to go to a major show and try to put together a VF-AU Barber Half set. These would be coins that are not cleaned, damaged, whizzed, tooled etc and would be graded by PCGS/NGC. In addition, compare what you see with graded Mint State Barber Halves graded by PCGS/NGC. Take into account that money is no object. You can easily put together a mint state set of Barber Halves in 63-65. Obviously, to get to the level of a Pete Shireman and those above him will take a bit of time. I guarantee that you will not be able to put together this set or even come close for that matter. You need to look through at least 100 Barber Halves in the VF-AU range in order to glean out a good one. And most of them will be "common" pieces. These are truly condition rarity coins. That is what makes it so darn fun to find and collect and why there is such an active interest in this range. Folks have and are putting together some beautiful sets of circulated Barber Halves.

As for Tyler's coins, I'm sure he has looks at thousands for every one he has graded.

Barberman55

<< <i>You need to look through at least 100 Barber Halves in the VF-AU range in order to glean out a good one. And most of them will be "common" pieces. These are truly condition rarity coins. That is what makes it so darn fun to find and collect and why there is such an active interest in this range. Folks have and are putting together some beautiful sets of circulated Barber Halves. >>




Craig,

You must be including raw coins in your figures. It would take a very long time to come up with 100 Barber halves, in the VF-AU range, (certified by NGC or PCGS), never mind trying to find nice, original, appealing looking coins out of this bunch. The numbers on certified Barber halves in this grade range is very low compared to the numbers on MS Barber halves. So you add the popularity of collecting in the VF-AU grades along with the number of certified examples available in this grade range, and presto.........you get circulated Barber halves selling for way over retail prices.

MajorDuty

<< <i>..... it's about time they are getting the attention they deserve. >>



Which annoys the heck out of people like me who did not get started in this hobby decades ago. Today seems like the worst possible time to be collecting - great for you sellers out there. I've got to pay through the nose to get decent, original coins. Problem is, so is everyone else. That damned State Quarter program.

morgannut2

<< <i>

<< <i>..... it's about time they are getting the attention they deserve. >>



Which annoys the heck out of people like me who did not get started in this hobby decades ago. Today seems like the worst possible time to be collecting - great for you sellers out there. I've got to pay through the nose to get decent, original coins. Problem is, so is everyone else. That damned State Quarter program. >>



---Very well said--I'm more than annoyed with all the big money sloshing around. If it was just 1998 again even-I'd have a shot!!

MrBreeze

Barber Halves are simple to find in vf-xf. Heck, there are PCGS examples everywhere I look. I can't look on a website without seeing 10-15 examples. All of you guys need to stop paying all that money for those Barber Halves. They are not even worth greysheet bid. Stop acting like crazy people. If you have purchased some in error and need to get rid of them, I would give you 20% back of greysheet bid, just because I am a nice guy. On a more serious note, there are some coins being bought for albatross prices. Some of these coins will be with these buyers for a long while if they are not flipping them (eeeks!!!!). I have purchased better coins (in the last few weeks) than those on eBay for 50-60% of what they went for on eBay. You have to work if you want bargains. EBay is the easy way out, and you will pay for the privilige of bidding with every coinjock out there. I am not bragging, as I have also made some dumb purchases over the last few months of "collector grade" Barber Halves. Sometimes, you just get lucky. Last March, at Baltimore, I stumbled across the Teaparty table right after they had purchased a significant number of PCGS halves from vf-xf. I purchased the ones I could afford. Several were at healthy premiums to the market, at the time. Needless to say, they would not be hard to dump for a profit now. The one thing that bothers me is the plastic premium. So many people are ignoring some really nice coins that are in NGC/ANACS holders while driving the prices of PCGS coins to the moon. You could take several coins that I have seen, crack them, submit them to PCGS, take a two grade hit, and still sell them to PCGS chasers for a profit. "Buy the slab and not the coin" is becoming a mantra for many people in this market.

Barberman55

<< <i>Barber Halves are simple to find in vf-xf. Heck, there are PCGS examples everywhere I look. I can't look on a website without seeing 10-15 examples. All of you guys need to stop paying all that money for those Barber Halves. They are not even worth greysheet bid. Stop acting like crazy people. If you have purchased some in error and need to get rid of them, I would give you 20% back of greysheet bid, just because I am a nice guy. On a more serious note, there are some coins being bought for albatross prices. Some of these coins will be with these buyers for a long while if they are not flipping them (eeeks!!!!). I have purchased better coins (in the last few weeks) than those on eBay for 50-60% of what they went for on eBay. You have to work if you want bargains. EBay is the easy way out, and you will pay for the privilige of bidding with every coinjock out there. I am not bragging, as I have also made some dumb purchases over the last few months of "collector grade" Barber Halves. Sometimes, you just get lucky. Last March, at Baltimore, I stumbled across the Teaparty table right after they had purchased a significant number of PCGS halves from vf-xf. I purchased the ones I could afford. Several were at healthy premiums to the market, at the time. Needless to say, they would not be hard to dump for a profit now. The one thing that bothers me is the plastic premium. So many people are ignoring some really nice coins that are in NGC/ANACS holders while driving the prices of PCGS coins to the moon. You could take several coins that I have seen, crack them, submit them to PCGS, take a two grade hit, and still sell them to PCGS chasers for a profit. "Buy the slab and not the coin" is becoming a mantra for many people in this market. >>




Not everyone can get to the larger coin shows, and hence, get first crack at some of the nicer circulated Barber halves. Most Barber specialist's are well aware of the dealer's who carry alot of Barber material in their inventory, i.e., JJ Teaparty, HLRC, DLRC, Alpine Numismatics, RCNH, to name a few. Whenever any nice, circulated Barber halves are listed on their websites, the material is gone in a heartbeat (and that includes coins that are certified by NGC, ANACS, and ICG). I have to agree, many of the nicer, circulated Barber halves purchased from these dealer's can be flipped immediately on Ebay for a nice little profit.

Tarmac

Sure MS Barber 50c are pricey but buy 2-3 per year and you will be rewarded in 10-15yrs. Many are always looking to upgrade their sets. Current VF-XF prices have limited upside at current prices.

Legend has recommended Proof Barbers which I agree are a steal. MS Barber 50c only needs to a few dozen collectors to increase double digits in short order.

Buy them when no one wants them, enjoy them and then sell for a profit.

USCGCraig

Mr. Breeze, I don't know if you are including propblem coins in your mix of "Barber Halves are simple to find in vf-xf. Heck, there are PCGS examples everywhere I look". I went to the Baltimore show in December with tons of cash and all the time in the world. I saw an ANACS XF40 1901 which was decent, a 1912 in XF+/AU I bought raw from Smythe and an 1892-S in AU I bought raw and paid stronger money for. The only reason I did that was he gave me a guarantee the coin the would slab. Not that I don't trust my own grading but I have been surprised in the past. Other then that, there were no other VF-AU Barber Halves there that were worth a darn. Yes, I did ask every dealer if they had any except for the obvious folks like foreign coin dealers. I saw a ton of G-VG pieces all trying to get Fine+ money. I also saw quite a few MS pieces. I believe my count was 47 different dates/mintmarks mainly in the MS62-64 range and I counted PCGS/NGC/ANACS coins. In addition, I keep a spreadhhseet with data for graded problem free coins for well over 2-years now from all the major auction houses and dealer websites. Some coins just do not come on the market such as a nice 1910-P or 1902-O. 1912-D's are pretty easy to come by as are low grade 13-P, 14-P and 15-P's.

Yes, I have no problem looking at ANACS, PCI, SEGS, ICG coins for possible cross-over. I've been burned a bit and have filled some holes. All in all I've been thrilled with what I have done with those coins. Notice I don't look at ACG. I have yet to see a Barber Half that I feel doesn't have problems of some sort.

I worked in a coinshop part-time while stationed in Seattle. My boss knew I liked the VF-AU Barber Halves and put them aside for me. This included raw and graded pieces. In the year and half I worked there, I saw a 1912-D in PCGS AU50, 08-S in VF and a 02-P in lower XF. They never crossed the counter. We got AG-VG all day long and those were common dates. I tell you, these coins don't exist. We did have over 100+ lower mint state coins cross the counter. Nothing terribly special.

Dan, yes I was referring to raw as well as graded coins.

Sure, I may be paying a bit more for these pieces but this set will stay with me for a long time. How long will it be before someone else is able to put together an XF45 set let alone a nice Vf or even matched AU set. Heck, even a problem free matched Fine set is a fun challenge.

MrBreeze

Craig, the first three lines were in jest. The beginning of my opinion started with a comment about seriousness. I agree with you that the Barber Halves that we so covet are nonexistent (that's strong, but very hard to find may not cut it). I would point to my registry set. I put up all of the PCGS coins that I was willing to purchase in the last 12-15 months(based on looks, availability, funds available, etc). My registry set is Play Ball Halves. It has eight coins in it. I have almost a full set with some NGC and ANACS stuff, but the intention of crossovers has not yet materialized. I have three coins which will definitely cross where I want them, but that may not happen any time soon. Then, when the set is finished, I will have the joy of upgrading it. My problem is tied into some of what you mentioned in your response. I started at the very bottom - get one example of each with full rims for the set. I have since upgraded the 1913, 1914, 1915, 1892-O, 1892-S, 1897-O, 1897-S and many of the "key" coins. That has not been difficult, as you stated. Where most of the problems lie is with the 1896-O (which I was so tempted to fall on my sword for the eBay example that just sold and pay "whatever it took"), 1902-O, 1901-S and some of the other "semi-keys." Whoever got any of those coins that tchild (all three batches) was selling got some incredible coins. If I had the money right now, I would have gotten the 1896-O, period, no questions asked. The 1902-O was sweet, as well, but I have a P30 already. I have cut myself off from upgrading until I get more of the set finished. But, the 1898-O went for ouch prices. I will give you the fact that it is very tough, but I could not really support some of the prices I saw. In all honesty, I would have purchased any of those coins, but, I would have also agreed with myself that they were very far from being marked up, and would be for my intrinsic enjoyment only. As a Barber Half guy, I agree with everything you have said, because I have seen and experienced it. I think I have had more luck with Seated Quarters than Barber Halves, and that says a lot.