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Worst. PSA 4. Ever.

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  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭
    Looking at there other auctions, they have some nice cards, but there is something about the centering/borders on that 34 Goudey Gehrig that just does not look right to me??


    Stingray
  • cardfan07cardfan07 Posts: 680 ✭✭
    Staining, paper loss and is that pencil on the back? Hmm, centering corners and overall eye appeal must really outweigh those things.
    I think I'm going to send some cards in for crossover...they're bound to get bumped up a grade or two!
    Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Tom Seaver, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock player collector
  • cardfan07cardfan07 Posts: 680 ✭✭
    Oh, and by the way, that isn't sour grapes cause I dont get cards graded like that...I'm looking at the PSA graded cards I currently own as my personal collection, one that I've spent some $$ on and would hope to recoup if I'm forced to sell. Slider grades and very inconsistent grading hurts the hobby and hurts PSA's position in it.
    Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Tom Seaver, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock player collector
  • 1960toppsguy1960toppsguy Posts: 1,127 ✭✭
    If you took away the stain, paper loss and pencil mark on the back, that would be a good lookin cardimage
  • srs1asrs1a Posts: 398 ✭
    No arguments on the grade, but even a miserable looking Ramly is a pleasure to look at IMO.
    Dr S. of the Dead Donkeys MC
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Looking at there other auctions, they have some nice cards, but there is something about the centering/borders on that 34 Goudey Gehrig that just does not look right to me??

    Stingray >>



    I've long thought that Legacy gets a few more generous grades than the average submitter. Maybe not, as it could just be that the high-profile cards they sell amplify any loose grading. And that's a very polite way to describe the grading of that Ramly.

    But that's not really the issue.

    Cardfan, I think you nailed it. Mistakes - be they confusing a T206 common with the hobby's marquee card or giving a 4 to a card that's a 2(MK) at best - erode collector confidence. It's certainly bad for PSA and collectors of PSA-graded cards, but it's also bad for the hobby in general. I'm sure there are SGC or GAI loyalists that love seeing things like this, but some of the fallout from situations like this hits them, too. Frustrated PSA collectors aren't necessarily going to switch allegiance to XYZ, but might abandon graded cards all together or even leave the hobby.

    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • cardfan07cardfan07 Posts: 680 ✭✭
    With 10 million or so graded cards, I'm expecting that some of the "errors" like mislabeling will occur. That's a fact of life and getting those fixed is an easy deal.
    Grading inconsistencies shouldn't be ignored. I have an SGC graded card that I'd like to crossover (1948 Leaf Ted Williams) that I believe should cross into a PSA 7. It's not 50/50 centering, but I've come across dozens of cards recently that just don't seem to add up. And the worst part of it is that I'd be happy with a 7 crossover, but if the card isnt deserving, it isn't deserving, end of story. But the cards I'm comparing it to are in the holders they're in. It's frustrating.

    I've got a scan to share. Can someone host?
    Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Tom Seaver, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock player collector
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    Try using www.imageshack.us. They offer free, easy-to-use hosting.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • cardfan07cardfan07 Posts: 680 ✭✭
    Let's see if this is it...

    [/URL]">Right grade?
    Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Tom Seaver, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock player collector
  • cardfan07cardfan07 Posts: 680 ✭✭
    Nope. This?

    Right grade?



    this link works. Seems to be O/C to me. So much so that grade couldnt possibly fit into the 70/30 for a straight 7.
    Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Tom Seaver, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock player collector
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    image

    I didn't count pixels or anything, but I'd estimate it at 3:1 L:R, which is the max allowed for a PSA 7.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • A761506A761506 Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭
    The 39 Playball Williams measures 26/74 centering which puts it within the range of a PSA 7.

    It seems like a lot of people on here are always looking for flaws to tack qualifiers onto a particular grade, but qualifiers affect only a small percentage of all the cards graded.

    I'll agree, that PSA 4 T204 Ramley card was given some leeway, but you have to admit, it isn't exactly as common as your average Topps issue. SGC would have probably graded it a 3 or their equivalent to VG since they do not use qualifiers.
  • cardfan07cardfan07 Posts: 680 ✭✭
    I'm interested in having my cards graded consistently. That's all. If that were my Ted Williams, I'd be happy as hell to get a 7. In fact, I'd base future submissions, and potentially crossovers on that grade. However, I don't believe there's a ton of consistency. There have to be half a dozen threads on this board alone right now that are talking about consistency in grading, certain dealers getting better grades, "is this a 10", and so on. Whether the Ramly is a nice card and less common than most has no bearing when 3 different things that would/could/should get a qualifier of some kind or a much lower grade are all present on the same card.

    Edit to include grade standards...

    VG-EX 4: Very Good-Excellent.

    Corners may be slightly rounded. Surface wear is noticeable but modest. May have light scuffing or light scratches. Some original gloss will be retained. Borders may be slightly off-white. A light crease may be visible. Centering must be 85/15 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the back.
    VG 3: Very Good.

    A PSA VG 3 card reveals some rounding of the corners, though not extreme. Some surface wear will be apparent, along with possible light scuffing or light scratches. Focus may be somewhat off-register and edges may exhibit noticeable wear. Much, but not all, of the card's original gloss will be lost. Borders may be somewhat yellowed and/or discolored. A crease may be visible. Printing defects are possible. Slight stain may show on obverse and wax staining on reverse may be more prominent. Centering must be 90/10 or better on the front and back.
    GOOD 2: Good.

    A PSA Good 2 card's corners show accelerated rounding and surface wear is starting to become obvious. A good card may have scratching, scuffing, light staining, or chipping of enamel on obverse. There may be several creases. Original gloss may be completely absent. Card may show considerable discoloration. Centering must be 90/10 or better on the front and back.
    Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Tom Seaver, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock player collector
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    I agree that Ramlys are great in almost any condition, but the scarcity or age of a given issue shouldn't necessarily affect the grade. I'm sure some issues probably get breaks because they're prone to toning, rough cuts or whatever, but this Donlin is horribly overgraded. I'm not the grading proponent I was 5 years ago, but I still think graded cards are generally a safer internet buy than raw cards. But if I had purchased this card sight unseen, I'd be livid after opening the package.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭
    i call that "paper loss".. not "scuffing" as PSA 4 standards say..

    it's a little bit frustrating, because one of the first cards i ever submitted to PSA was a 1951 bowman Whitey Ford that was a PSA 6 or better in every way, but it had a tiny, tiny "speck" of supposed "paper loss" on the back, and they nailed it with a PSA 2.. to me it didnt even look like paper loss, it looked more like "color" loss or something, because only a dot was missing of red in the word "baseball" on the back..
    ·p_A·
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    Preach on, brotha. PSA is all over the place when it comes to paper loss and/or scuffing.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • doncherrydoncherry Posts: 238 ✭


    << <i>Preach on, brotha. PSA is all over the place when it comes to paper loss and/or scuffing. >>



    Am i correct you once owned a PSA 8 Beliveau Rookie purchased from AJ's that had paper loss on the back as well ?
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    Partially. I never could tell for sure whether the missing ink was paper loss or just a factory flaw. I erred on the side of caution and returned the card. I think I've since seen a Beliveau rookie with the same problem, so it might just be a print problem with some of the run, but for $1,800 I wasn't taking any chances.

    Great memory, by the way.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • julen23julen23 Posts: 4,558 ✭✭
    i have a 1969 topps reggie jackson that has 4 pretty crisp corners, but the back has a spot where the orange has turned white. it is NOT a tear, but more of a discoloration. anyway, it graded psa 5, so i have since removed from the holder and keep it in a non-graded case.

    i don't know standards for grading by any means, but that card was a certain 7 (at the least), but the discoloration on the back dropped it down to a shiesty 5.

    Julen
    image
    RIP GURU
  • dizzyfoxxdizzyfoxx Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭
    That grade is completely accurate for that particular issue.image
    image...There's always time for coin collecting. image
  • tkd7tkd7 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭


    << <i>I agree that Ramlys are great in almost any condition, but the scarcity or age of a given issue shouldn't necessarily affect the grade. I'm sure some issues probably get breaks because they're prone to toning, rough cuts or whatever, but this Donlin is horribly overgraded. I'm not the grading proponent I was 5 years ago, but I still think graded cards are generally a safer internet buy than raw cards. But if I had purchased this card sight unseen, I'd be livid after opening the package. >>



    I completely agree that age or scarcity should not affect the grade. By doing that, you are only detracting from the vintage cards that are truly in high grade. I cringe whenever I see "great condition for its age" in an ebay description. An item's condition is just that. It isn't age dependent.
  • ArtRossLivesArtRossLives Posts: 193
    That Ramly barks. The scuffing (paper lose in my book) makes it closer to a 2 than a 4. However, the mark on the back is not a mark, just a DNA sample from the grader......
    C56, V252, V128-1 sets
    Hall of Famers from all 4 sports
  • EagleEyeKidEagleEyeKid Posts: 4,496 ✭✭
    PSA does not deduct for doing lines of blow on your favorite card.
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