Auction machinations and exploitation will kill this hobby.

Tarmac

This could be another example of the manipulation and exploitation of naive collectors who have more money than savvy.

The links for these auctions are at the end of my post:
The Heritage internet auction ENDED at 4:31pm CST [or 2:31p PST] on 3/12
The ebay auction was started at 3:54pm PST on 3/12

How did the coin get paid for, make its way from Heritage to the buyer and get listed on ebay in less than 2 hours? It was an internet auction so winner could not just walk up and pay. Very strange.

Next, the coin is in an NGC holder and the seller shows the NGC pops but quotes the PCGS price guide [$9000, while guide shows $8,500] in tiny print. The last 4 1902 50c in MS66 have sold as follows:

3/12/06 sold for 3,593 NGC
6/3/05 sold for 5,175 PCGS
6/3/05 sold for 8,825 PCGS
5/7/05 sold for 2,990 NGC

Everyone makes mistakes but this process is calculated and given the type of coins being sold by the seller he is experienced enough to know what he is doing.

The bidding is already weird on this auction and I am watching this auction. I will reserve my comments after it ends or gets cut off early.


Ebay Auction

Heritage Auction

Russ

<< <i>How did the coin get paid for, make its way from Heritage to the buyer and get listed on ebay in less than 2 hours? >>



Heritage is now using the latest in transporter beam shipping technology.

Russ, NCNE

tmot99

Always a possibility that is his coin. Didn't get to where he wanted it to be and placed a bid and won the coin back. Then he posted his pictures on ebay.

IrishMike

Unfortunately the practice of listing coins in other than PCGS holders and pasting their price guide has become rampant on Ebay. I noticed this morning that members of this forum have caught on to this practice and are utilizing it.

1921obsession

You know, I originally left this hobby thirty years ago mostly because unscrupulous dealers were trying to take advantage of my lack of knowledge - I couldn't find coins which weren't vastly inflated over their true worth, or a dealer who wouldn't stretch the truth just as far his direction as he possibly could.

Thirty years later, I'm back, and the only thing which has changed about the scenario is the Internet has leveled the field by providing as many naive, inexperienced sellers as buyers.

There will be rookies, there will be situational ethics, there will be mistakes made and learning experienced the hard way. As long as coin collecting/dealing isn't a non-profit process, that will be so. I hope you'll forgive me if I do not engage in hand-wringing.

sinin1

I think they just bought it and stole and manipulated Heritage photos and expect to have it in hand by time of auction close

not sure if they will have to shill to keep price legit or if they will cancel auction in last 5 seconds if not what they need

Steve27

" Unfortunately the practice of listing coins in other than PCGS holders and pasting their price guide has become rampant on Ebay. I noticed this morning that members of this forum have caught on to this practice and are utilizing it."

I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but the PCGS price guide is for "correctly graded" coins not PCGS holdered coins. (No I have never sold on ebay.)

IrishMike

Actually Steve , the price guide is the average dealer asking price for properly graded coins. Furthermore I never said the price guide was limited to coins holdered by PCGS. I don't know how you got that out of what I said.

The point being that this price does not measure what someone should expect to pay for a certain coin regardless of who holdered it. And any seller of experience knows that certain holdered coins on average bring lessor prices and by implaction of linking the price guide they are suggesting otherwise.

drsvenghali

<< <i>I think they just bought it and stole and manipulated Heritage photos and expect to have it in hand by time of auction close >>



Ditto.

VamGuy

Directly from the PCGS website: The prices listed in the PCGS Price Guide are the average dealer asking prices for properly graded United States coins. The prices are compiled from various sources including dealer ads in trade papers, dealer fixed price lists, significant auctions, and activity at major coin shows. Prices for the most actively traded coins are updated daily. Other issues are updated as needed. All prices are reviewed at least once a month.




<< <i>The point being that this price does not measure what someone should expect to pay for a certain coin regardless of who holdered it. And any seller of experience knows that certain holdered coins on average bring lessor prices and by implaction of linking the price guide they are suggesting otherwise. >>

Then perhaps the blame should be on PCGS for publicly posting these prices. Perhaps they should bring the prices more in line with reality instead of intentionally overinflating the prices. You full well know that this is done so that the PCGS authorized dealers can quote these prices to their unsuspecting suckers, er, customers. How can you possibly blame any third party for simply quoting a company's price guide?

IrishMike

Not sure what I am being accused of but I will recite what I said in another thread about the PCGS price guide, the prices are very close to what you coins are offered at on dealer websites. I am not on a mission to lay blame anywhere. However folks on here know the validity or nonvalidity of all price guides and it is misleading to quote those prices in an auction. If anything quote the latest realized prices from ebay or auction sites. Is that clearer now?

slipgate

edit - removed post to avoid hijacking thread - published under new topic "PCGS used as source for pricing quotes... "

Russ

This approach is the new wave for sellers who buy on Teletrade. Edit out the TT copyright info from the images and use them in their eBay auctions. Pretty cheesey, and anybody who uses Teletrade recognizes the images.

Russ, NCNE

LeeG

<< <i>Heritage is now using the latest in transporter beam shipping technology. >>


I sure wish this was true. I've had to call the last three times I won any lot's in a Heritage Auction before my coins actually shipped. As soon as I called on each one they were shipped FEDEX 2nd day air. Go figure. Getting too big and don't have enough people in the right places.

19Lyds

<< <i>Unfortunately the practice of listing coins in other than PCGS holders and pasting their price guide has become rampant on Ebay. I noticed this morning that members of this forum have caught on to this practice and are utilizing it. >>



What other methods are available to build value for your coin?? Just a question mind you.

Granted previous Ebay auction prices could be linked into the actual auction, but Heritage and Teledrade require a membership and login to gather that information. Unless, of course, you want to cut and paste.

Personally, I would never quote PSGC prices for a non-PCGS coin.

Tarmac

When I first posted this thread I already knew the outcome of this auction. I knew it would be won by a 'private' or 'zero' feedback bidder.

This was one of the strangest auctions I've seen in a while.

Bidder History on Barber 1902 50c

More interesting is how this seller always has new ebay bidders bidding on his auctions but they never leave feedback. Now how often do you see a new bidder on ebay going out and bidding and winning $3000 coins?

Anyone care to guess who will win this auction for an NGC MS67 10c pattern? The top bidder is yet another 0 feedback !

I wish I could get newbies to bid on my $1000+ coin auctions!

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and.....