Hot money for hot color!
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
Some amazing prices for bust halves tonight at ANR. Can you believe $20k for a common date MS64 bust half? 
How about $25k for an early common date MS65?
How about $25k for an early common date MS65?
0
Comments
with them to the hereafter.
Camelot
The 1811 is an absoulte JEWEL IMO. Absolutely gorgeous and a gem from a technical standpoint and aesthetic aspect.
The 1824 to me looks like it has significant wear on ALL highpoints. While I am sure the coin uncirculated, it certainly isnt MS and I imagine that the eye appeal knocked it significantly higher on the grade scale with the judges.
That being said, I havent seen the coin in person and the pic might not be representative of the coin.
J
siliconvalleycoins.com
J
siliconvalleycoins.com
I was the successful bidder on the 1811 in 65. It is truly a wonder coin, and looks even better in hand.
The 1824 is a fairly rare variety, being the overdate over various dates, and was a very attractive coin, even with the weakness(perhaps rub) on the drapery and upper curls.
But I too was surprised that it could hammer at 17,000. I dropped out at 10,000, and just observed a familiar scene, with 2 determined bidders, each who appeared totally dedicated to outbid the other.
All the NY estate coins went for the moon. But for the most part they deserved the high results. I think the audience and phone bidders just had not seen such nice fresh coins for a long time.
I also bought the 1794 half dime in PCGS 64. It has the best strike I have ever seen on a 1794 coin, of any denomination.
I would need to go back to work, if it were not for the sale of the Lib nickels. All said, it was a great night.
What I collect, unfortunately, is on the bottom tier of the registry. Haven't won an auction lot since Feb. of '05, and have only bought one coin in the last six months.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I tried hard on that 1892 65 of yours Dale. Best strike I think I have ever seen and was in the hunt and so close but not quite there.
Looks like your nickels did well congratulations. They are an incredible set and accomplishment. Maybe I will run across one at a later date.
Glenn
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
According to Edgar Souder’s, new addition of, ”Bust Half Fever”, these minor rubs on the tops of the devices are caused by collectors that kept their collections in books that had plastic slides.
What appears to be rubs, are small amounts of toneing that have been removed. In his discussion with most graders, and the TPG’S, they DO NOT consider this wear, and this does not detract from the grade of the coin.
Beautiful coins, all of them. Just not worth the $ (at least not to me).
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
especially the buyers.
Russ, NCNE
Colored coins are all unique - how could anyone publish bonafide bids in that instance?
sour grapes
<< <i>So, the answer is that there are no firms that meet Laura's definition of a market maker for these coins. That doesn't bode well for the purchasers of this material. Surely they will get screwed when they try to sell these coins without the safety net of market makers.
Nice try, Russ. There's a big difference between dealers who'd rather 'make a coin than stock a coin' and these puppies. There's nothing to 'make' here ... the grade on the label was not really relevant. >>
The simple fact is that there are no market makers for these coins. I'm deeply concerned for the buyers because that safety net doesn't exist. Surely, there is something that can be done about that. We should demand that dealers step up and publish buy/sell lists for these coins so that the poor, ignorant schmucks who ponied up ridiculous money for common coins aren't left holding the bag.
Russ, NCNE
Color is a funny animal with coins, no doubt. I was dragged kicking and screaming into purchasing my icon coin. I'm kinda glad I did, tho.
<< <i>How big is that underpop pyramid on these coins? >>
Far larger than DCAM 1965 SMS Kennedys, for example.
I'm troubled that you don't seem to be concerned for the wellbeing of the buyers of this material. I know I am.
Russ, NCNE
More arguing the exception instead of the rule?
Know what the big diiference is?
The person or persons who were the end buyer of these coins know what they are doing and made an informed decision.They didn't get talked into or sandbagged, they knew exactly what they were doing.The fact is that down the road there will be more buyers going gaga over these two bust halves than any modern you could come up with in the same price range.
Tell me this Russ-
Do you buy high priced moderns, or just make them and put them onto e-bay and hope some poor S.O.B. takes the bait? Just curious if you are a buyer or a maker/seller. I just thought since you have such a strong opinion on this it's a legit question.
<< <i>
<< <i>How big is that underpop pyramid on these coins? >>
Far larger than DCAM 1965 SMS Kennedys, for example.
I'm troubled that you don't seem to be concerned for the wellbeing of the buyers of this material. I know I am.
Russ, NCNE >>
OBSESSED (verb)
1. preoccupy
- transitive verb to occupy somebody's thoughts constantly and exclusively
- the desire for vengeance obsesses him
edited for spelling
Russ rarely buys a graded coin.... or so he says.
well that explains all the moaning and groaning- he makes em and a sells em?. Just protecting his profit margins?
<<Far larger than DCAM 1965 SMS Kennedys, for example.>>
Sorry Russ. You are wrong. I will buy either one of those, anytime, for the prices just paid. There, now. There is no underpop.
<< <i>More arguing the exception instead of the rule? >>
The exception? Like, maybe, toned coins that bring many times the value of their untoned counterparts? Or DCAM coins that bring many times the value of their brilliant counterparts? You can't have it both ways. Either both buyers are schmucks, or both buyers aren't.
<< <i>Know what the big diiference is?
The person or persons who were the end buyer of these coins know what they are doing and made an informed decision.They didn't get talked into or sandbagged, they knew exactly what they were doing. >>
More elitist crap. Only "classics" buyers know what they're doing, while moderns buyers are just idiots without a clue.
<< <i>Tell me this Russ-
Do you buy high priced moderns, or just make them and put them onto e-bay and hope some poor S.O.B. takes the bait? Just curious if you are a buyer or a maker/seller. >>
You mean like the "poor S.O.B." who bought a PCGS PR68CAM Accented Hair from me for $800 and sold it less than a year later for $1840? Or, the "poor S.O.B" who bought a PCGS MS67DCAM 1967 SMS Kennedy from me for $610 and sold it six months later for $1050? Or, the "poor S.O.B" who bought a PCGS 1966 MS66DCAM Jefferson from me for $480 that's worth about 25% more today?
I'm sure these "poor S.O.B's" are grateful for your concern.
Oh, and BTW, I sell everything at 99c no reserve. The market makes the decision about values, not me.
<< <i>OBSESSED (verb)
1. preoccupy
- transitive verb to occupy somebody's thoughts constantly and exclusively
- the desire for vengeance obsesses him >>
If by obsessed, you mean the desire to refute the ignorance about moderns around here, I plead guilty.
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
I see Russ' point. Whenever you are paying an extreme amount for what a coin is typically worth, you are assuming additional risk. If/when toning goes out of vogue or the market collapses, in general, these are the types of coins that I would not want to be having to sell. Of course, if selling is never an issue, who cares how much one pays for a coin?
and also buy their own websites and promote hawk their stuff on their own websites and also in advertising and buy computers and do it at home instead of on the companies time
pcgs is a collector website forums not a profit site to promote your own wares............also if pcgs went out of biz tomorrow many would be left holding the bag or should i say the music would stop and many not have a chair to sit down apon but you can bet your bottom dollar the makers/promoters on here/hawkers/barkers of this rare ms/pf 69/70 ga-ga grade plastic with ever so less rare and available by the ton almost the same raw coins available for lots less!! are well taken care of and already have seats
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
dont you just feel the
I was referring to the buyers of the two coins discussed in this thread but since you brought it up. The fact is that pricing information is readily available for classics and the retail buyers of these items I find by actual experience have a better working knowledge of what they are buying. Over 80% of the modern coins sold today are sold by telemarketing companies to people who have absolutely no clue as to what they are doing. I see it every day, time and time again, horror story after horror story. The percentage of modern business done by those who post on these boards is miniscule in the bigger picture, the modern world does not revolve around the PCGS message boards.At the same time it doesn't seem as if anyone on these boards is part of the problem either, it's about the bigger picture in that market segment, which is far outside these boards.
WHEN THE MODERN COIN TRAIN STOPS AT THE LAST STATION MANY WILL TRY TO GET OFF BUT WON'T BE ABLE TO. UNLIKE CLASSIC COINS WHICH HAVE HAD MORE THAN FEW PRICE CORRECTIONS,WHEN THE MODERN BUBBLE BURSTS PRICES WILL NOT LIKLEY RECOVER. WHY? BECAUSE FOR THE MOST PART IT IS, WAS AND ALWYAS WILL BE A ONE WAY STREET DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE MONEY FOR THE SELLERS IS IN MAKING THE COINS AND SELLING THEM NOT BUYING BACK A $200 COIN THEY MADE INTO A $5,000 COIN.
Do you buy high priced moderns, or just make them and put them onto e-bay and hope some poor S.O.B. takes the bait? Just curious if you are a buyer or a maker/seller. >>
YOU NEVER ANSWERED THE QUESTION!!!! DO YOU BUY SLABBED MODERNS OR MAKE THEM AND SELL THEM-
"You mean like the "poor S.O.B." who bought a PCGS PR68CAM Accented Hair from me for $800 and sold it less than a year later for $1840? Or, the "poor S.O.B" who bought a PCGS MS67DCAM 1967 SMS Kennedy from me for $610 and sold it six months later for $1050? Or, the "poor S.O.B" who bought a PCGS 1966 MS66DCAM Jefferson from me for $480 that's worth about 25% more today?
I'm sure these "poor S.O.B's" are grateful for your concern."
WOW three whole examples, in the low price ranges, since we are talking about a couple of classics over 20K how bout some examples ofthe more expensive items. Anyone?
Such is true ... except there is a distinct difference between paying for color and paying for grade rarity. Natural monster color is enjoyable to look at ... an insert isn't - especially after the underpop starts to overflow.
<< <i>The fact is that pricing information is readily available for classics and the retail buyers of these items >>
HMM...checking the inflated PCGS price guide I see that these two coins have a value that is signficantly lower than the prices paid. What was your point, again?
<< <i>Over 80% of the modern coins sold today are sold by telemarketing companies to people who have absolutely no clue as to what they are doing. >>
And so is common date generic gold. Still looking for your point.
<< <i>WHEN THE MODERN BUBBLE BURSTS PRICES WILL NOT LIKLEY RECOVER. >>
Speculation born of ignorance. There are plenty of moderns that will always have value regardless of the direction the moderns market as a whole moves. Damn, that's just like the classics market! No point found yet.
<< <i>YOU NEVER ANSWERED THE QUESTION!!!! DO YOU BUY SLABBED MODERNS OR MAKE THEM AND SELL THEM- >>
The answer was self-evident in my response. However, since you appear to be a bit slow on the uptake - I find them raw, have them graded and sell them in REAL auction format where the market decides the value.
<< <i>WOW three whole examples, in the low price ranges >>
I could name dozens of examples of high grade moderns that continue to go up in value. But, it would be a waste of time in the face of your startling ignorance of the market.
<< <i>since we are talking about a couple of classics over 20K how bout some examples ofthe more expensive items. Anyone? >>
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Natural monster color is enjoyable to look at ... >>
So are deep cameos.
Russ, NCNE
Much of the bragging on this forum is centered on modern coins cherried from a dufus dealer's stock and then currated bright- sent to PCGS for holdering and sold on eBay at insane profits. After awhile this same scenerio, played day in and day out, causes a collector to become jaded toward contemporary modern coins as simply a commodity and not a true collectible.
For me:
Classics are for keep'in.
Moderns are for buying raw (at sheet), dipp'in; grad'in and flip'in.
<< <i>Hot money for hot color >>
Yup. I was watching some common date New Orleans Mint Morgans on ebay the other day that had some pretty nice end roll toning to them. They sold for hundreds. While I much liked the look of those coins, and was willing to pay a premium for them, the final realized prices based soley on the tarnishing is rediculous in my opinion. It's really out of hand these days - good news for sales.
Quite frankly, when I first came here, I thought it was some sort of lottery game. Buy a bunch of proof sets, submit a bunch of coins, score a few hits that pay for all the rest. I did not realize the amount of time (I won't call it work
<< <i>Much of the bragging on this forum is centered on modern coins cherried from a dufus dealer's stock and then currated bright- sent to PCGS for holdering and sold on eBay at insane profits. After awhile this same scenerio, played day in and day out, causes a collector to become jaded toward contemporary modern coins as simply a commodity and not a true collectible.
>>
There is plenty of bragging about cherrypicking classic coins as well, especially VAMs.
<< <i>What do you think this coin would sell for if it was a PCGS graded Cappped Bust Half Dollar instead of the PCGS graded Capped Bust Half Dime that it is? >>
There is a Half Dime that just sold at ANR for over $80K.
Russ, NCNE
A bit over market, but nothing like the subject coins...
<< <i>There is a Half Dime that just sold at ANR for over $80K. >>
Doesn't neccessarily surprise me. What date, grade and variety was it?
<< <i><< There is a Half Dime that just sold at ANR for over $80K. >>
Doesn't neccessarily surprise me. What date, grade and variety was it? >>
1794 PCGS MS64. Surprisingly, there are 19 graded at that level.
Russ, NCNE
And so is your new icon, Russ. (Thank God you changed it).
Doesn't neccessarily surprise me. What date, grade and variety was it?
1794 PCGS MS64. Surprisingly, there are 19 graded at that level.>>
Read ON THIS THREAD why the seller bought it! (King Tahoe)
<< <i>And so is your new icon, Russ. (Thank God you changed it). >>
Damn, now I'll have to switch back.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i><< There is a Half Dime that just sold at ANR for over $80K. >>
Doesn't neccessarily surprise me. What date, grade and variety was it? >>
1794 PCGS MS64. Surprisingly, there are 19 graded at that level.
Russ, NCNE >>
There are over 150 total graded by PCGS. The 19 in 64 is as small pop. than the 1795 in MS64. Was the coin attributed? With bust material you'll see insanely high hammer prices on occasion and it'll be due to the coin being a rare variety. A lot of folks don't realize that and just see it as someone paying crazy money for a coin.
<< <i>Was the coin attributed? With bust material you'll see insanely high hammer prices on occasion and it'll be due to the coin being a rare variety. >>
Reading back through this thread as Lloyd suggested, the buyer felt it had the best strike he'd ever seen on any 1794 dated coin. So, it wasn't variety, but rather superiority that drove the price.
PCGS price guide has it at $45K and there is a certain world series participant holding all 19 examples that's hoping that will be updated based on this result.
(And no, it's not me).
Russ, NCNE