Home U.S. Coin Forum

Lightning strikes again - 2nd upgrade sold off too cheap

roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
1857 dime PCGS PF67


Lightning struck once back in the fall when I found out that the 1890 PF 68 NGC half I sold at the August Baltimore show became a PCGS PF68 CAM ($14K to $35K) 3 months later.

The 1857 dime above was purchased by me off ebay of all places about 2-1/2 years ago for $6800. No one else bid on it. The owner sold it during a Long Beach show on a Tuesday. The auction ended at 4 pm PST. The timing was excellent for me as I placed an additional bid $1000 higher but it wasn't needed. Supposedly it had sold for $20K+ in 1989-1990. That was what the seller told me as he was just dumping the coin for a client. Indeed he did. Coin was in a old green tag holder and had striking target toning. Definitely "A" level eye appeal imo. Surfaces were very clean but did not appear to warrant PCGS 67. The mirrors were a touch cloudy. I felt it could go NGC67 but all in all, the coin seemed worth more in the green tag holder. In any case I sold the coin at August Baltimore along with the above mentioned half (man, that was an expensive show in retrospect). Several dealers passed on the dime until one of our forum member dealers bought it for $9000 (a counter below my orig ask price). Today's value - ostensibly $20K+.

Giving the store away twice in a year for $30k total to date is somewhat frustrating. Lesson learned........TWICE! Time to change things to prevent a 3rd occurence. Frankly the notion is not lost on me. I have a dealer friend who often shops my coins with his, and he routinely (or always) gets more money that I can for them. He is a far tougher seller with more chops. I'm a better buyer but w/o the 2nd half, the package is not complete. I was ready to bail out of another coin (pop 1) at FUN and he started shopping it and took it up another 20% or so and found there was still interest at that level.
Though it didn't sell it did indicate there was easy money left on the table. In the future, he will get much more of the action.

roadrunner



Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold

Comments

  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    What would you change in the future?

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • LouisCampLouisCamp Posts: 468 ✭✭✭
    I think he should use a better lubricant.

    Lou
    lchobbyco
    ANA Life-Member
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. don't get into trouble with cash flow where you need to sell
    things you'd prefer not to. I also sold an orig gem 1900 proof set
    at Baltimore with papers. A neat set with 3 gem 66RB cents.
    What was ironic was that I spent the first day of the show selling
    almost nothing. Came back the 2nd day and sold $30K among
    4 dealers. The very last dealer I visited bought another $50K
    and that was far more than I needed or wanted to sell. I was
    only looking for another $10K or so. Ironically I was happy to
    see the 1890 half go.......until I learned it crossed to 68Cam.

    2. go with your gut. On all those coins I liked them for more than I
    sold them for. A number of rejections early on skewed my brain.
    I orig thought the dime was worth closer to $12K....$10K min.
    Had I held the coin longer into the show I know I would have
    gotten $10K+ from the same guy who bought the 1890 half.
    Don't readjust your prices until you've tried all avenues. Out of
    4-10 major dealers, maybe only 1 (or none) will pay the price.

    3. start playing the upgrade game again. There would have been
    little risk in resubmitting the coin to PCGS. While I could have
    lost the green tag, the coin spoke for itself. Auctioning the
    coin would have been an ideal place for the "A" eye appeal and
    the old green tag holder. Upgrade potential to me was $3K while
    downside was $1K or less. I should not have given that up.
    That was irrational and hasty.

    4. Don't go it alone all the time. Nothing wrong with soliciting top
    help. Distance yourself from the transaction as it's only business.
    Being a good buyer doesn't make one a good seller. And some
    of the best buyers and sellers I know cannot grade well.

    that's for starters.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've heard of leaving some profit on the table for the next guy, but I'm wondering if you might consider putting me up for adoption, roadrunner image

    Is there any reason you didn't see fit to move for the crossover yourself, then move the coin? If you know how to buy then you must surely have
    a) one excellent eye
    b) tremendous knowledge of higher graded pieces and trends
    c) money to burn

    Maybe you didn't see the curve ? If you have a good eye, my thought would be to move on the crossover yourself, not flip it for small potatoes. Not that you should cut your dealer friend out, either. Hey, better to increase your profit margin and pay your salesman a commission than to leave the doors unlocked at night.
    Since you know the market, you did make something.
    Your generosity is showing, IMO... but you certainly must have friends... the more deals you offer like that, the more friends you will have, too. I hope your friend has a good enough eye and recognizes when or if a coin should crossover, too.

    There are a few lessons in this story.

    oops ... you beat me to it already , roadrunner image
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2 continues to be my weakest link...the fear of rejection while
    selling. Or the tendency to always offer a "too fair" price for fear of being cheap or crooked. And on the flip side, not asking enough for fear of being labeled crooked or a cheat (yeah, like 90% of everyone else - lol). And it's just not in coins. My wife had to make the counter offer on our house because I was embarrassed to offer so little (5% under what it was really worth). She got it! And it was not in me to cheat the sellers out of another 5%. My wife had no qualms about that, and well she should. It's just business. Maybe she should sell coins for me!

    Yup, gotta develop a thicker skin while working on the above. I did so many crackouts in the 1988-1990 market that I just don't want to bother these days. I think my biggest grading bill one year was $15K. But the point is well taken, I left the potential money on the table by not trying a simple regrade. And I've done that a few other times recently as well. But the the body bag you get back on every 4th to 6th crackout always keeps you wondering why you try!

    No doubt if I didn't have a good primary job I would be tring every coin for the max grade...that's how you make a living in coins. It takes up a lot of time I have precious little as it is with 1-1/2 jobs.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey Roadrunner....I need some money....if I give you a list of stocks I own, can you go sell, or short, them?
    I figure if you did that, with your luck right now, the stocks will shoot through the roof image

    Ouch on the coins dude image

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bohica, since I'm a proponent of gold coins and PM's at the moment, I would recommend you get out asap!

    Seriously, spotting and buying coins that will go up in value is one thing. Knowing when you really have them and then getting all the money for them makes it a tough game if you don't play in the market every day. One of the hazards in this game is showing up to sell things once or twice a year. Retailers have a HUGE advantage in this game. They often don't buy the right coins but still sell them for all the money to people who know less. They make the same with the right or wrong coins on the power of their name and advertising. Mistakes often don't hurt as they go out with the winners. Long term holders cannot use that option since in most cases you are selling back to a knowledgeable dealer if you have top end coins.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭
    image
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The "other guy" always gets the upgrades. image
  • RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608
    Hell, you did good, doubling your money in less than three years. Do that every time and it won't matter what else anyone else makes.

    In another thread a while back, you mentioned having terrible luck on attempted upgrades. If this is true, the next time probably won't be much different. It is often better for a person to stick to their knitting and do what they do well. Very few people have the eye to be successful on crack outs, or the steel nerves. The coin could have easily come back as a PF67 and a 40% loss, or worse get the dreaded body bag and then what? Send it across the street? And what if it body bags again? There are no guarantees when playing the crack out game. I say, rest easy and give yourself a pat on the back for an exceptional profit in a short amount of time.

    From what I have read, it seems that upgrades haven't been your thing. I see no reason to try to play a game that you aren't good at.
  • Road Runner - 3 things in life are certain. Death, Taxes, and if you sell out of truly PQ coins they will eventually be upgraded by somebody else. I can't count the number of times it has happened to me. Some of my coins deserved to go up and some didn't. Like you, I made some errors in judgement when selling. Certainly, a learning experience. I plan not to repeat similar mistakes in the future.

    I am familar with the 1857 dime and its history. It was offered to me a few month's ago. I have a 1858 - 91 seated proof set going and someone thought this coin would be a nice fit with the rest of my set. I was planning to stick to 58-91 era and not get into the earlier proof dates, but I decided to looked at the coin anyway. I can say its a nice coin and superior to what else is generally available for the era. I know at least 3 sharp guys who have handled this coin since you have sold it, including the one that currently has it listed. These dealers are very selective in what they handle so you know the grade is not gifted. If I am not mistaken, I think it was the first (maybe only) 67 - so thats probably why it didn't go higher earlier. What was PQ 66++ a few years is definitely 67 today. Some sharpies know how to get these coins in the higher holders and civilians (like me), just don't. Its a fact about the hobby I accepted. Like you, I am just too committed to my primary occupation.
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    I am sure if you need to say know or hold onto your coins for a longer time period to take advantage of demand. I've learned to either turn dealers down or tell them I can sell it elsewhere for more. Its amazing how often they pony up the cash. Its kinda like a good game of holdem. As you pointed out you can't allow yourself if its possible to be in a situation where you must sell.

    I sold a gorgeous toned Lib nickle on ebay for way more than what I paid for it. The following week I took 5 more to a local show and sold them back to the dealer I had purchased them from 4 years ago. I made 50% on them as he finally got the toning thing. I flat out showed him the ebay listing which indicated what it sold for and he ponied up.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file