ANA / OSTROMECKI COMMENTS IN COIN WORLD
Steve
Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
The ouster of elected ANA (American Numismatic Association)govenor Walter Ostromecki by the other board members last October is still an open concern. In the March 20th Coin World, Ostromecki finally gives his side of the story and Beth Deisher, in an editorial calls for an independent investigation of the facts.
I am an ANA member. I am interested in how others who are familiar with the events feel about the situation.
Thanks,
Steve
I am an ANA member. I am interested in how others who are familiar with the events feel about the situation.
Thanks,
Steve
0
Comments
The ANA keeps hiding behind their confidentiality agreements etc.
Is this a hobby organization or the CIA? I doubt the ANA would
ever agree to an independent investigation unless they could
have some kind of control over what information is made public.
When you have a rebellion by a group of now former ANA employees
against the the executive director you really have to wonder what
is the atmosphere at the place like to get into that kind of situation.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Bill Horton is going to be at the Nebraska state coin show on March 25th & 26th here in Omaha to "answer questions about the ANA". It should be interesting! >>
I'm sure any questions about the situation at hand will not be answered in a straightforward manner.
Most likely he will tap dance around it as best he can and then go on to the next question.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bill Horton is going to be at the Nebraska state coin show on March 25th & 26th here in Omaha to "answer questions about the ANA". It should be interesting! >>
I'm sure any questions about the situation at hand will not be answered in a straightforward manner.
Most likely he will tap dance around it as best he can and then go on to the next question. >>
Sounds like it's going to be a long weekend for him then.
I'm an ANA member and this ordeal just isn't sitting well from my point of view, hopefully Bill will be completely open about it.
Dave
-donn-
We as members are entitled to full disclosure.
I for one would never drop out of this organization because the benefits far outweigh any disputes that may be brought out in public but not all view this the same and i'm sure it cost the ANA some members.
Dave
-donn-
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>The ouster of elected ANA (American Numismatic Association)govenor Walter Ostromecki by the other board members last October is still an open concern. In the March 20th Coin World, Ostromecki finally gives his side of the story and Beth Deisher, in an editorial calls for an independent investigation of the facts.
I am an ANA member. I am interested in how others who are familiar with the events feel about the situation.
Thanks,
Steve
Well, this confidentiality agreement that board members and officers must sign should be flushed down the toliet. Do you know why the ANA has this silly agreement? You can thank Barry Stupler and his ranting against ASA/Accugrade which got most of the ANA Board sued.
The removal of Dr. Ostromecki would have to go down as one of the dumbest moves the ANA board has done. I have never met Dr. Ostromecki but has heard of his good work in the hobby, and I have to admire the fact that he has put the hobby's interest ahead of personal and business interests. His removal is a clear sign that the ANA seriously needs reform, and we, the 30,000+ members of the ANA, need to send a clear message to the Board that "politics as usual" will no longer be tolerated - period!
The elections coming up next year (2007) could provide an opportunity for those who wish to help make reforms in the ANA possible. All we need is candidates who can make this happen.
I cannot help but think of Kissingers' quote that "politics are so vicious because the stakes are so low", although I probably underestimate the stakes. What precisely is at stake, beyond smoe individuals professional reputation?
No maliciousness intended, but are we talking world peace or aversion of Katrina - level disaster?
Oh- and in the corporate world, as many of you know, confientiality agreements are stock-in-trade. Standard as automatic transmissions or AM/FM radios.
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Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Jerry
<< <i>Things are going to get interesting when Ostromecki runs for re-election and gets voted back in.
I hope that Dr. Walter Ostromecki will run in the next election (2007) as he will most certainly get my vote!
<< <i>The "perception" most of us have about this can be changed as more facts are presented. Donn (halfsense) above, states that Bill Horton, the ANA president presents a complete story of why the Board of Govenors voted to remove Walter Ostromecki in the March 27th issue of Coin World which has just been published. I will probably receive my copy next week. I believe each of us evaluate what people say and come to our own conclusions. So far, the ANA has done a very poor job in this. They will have to present some very revealing facts to convince me that this expulsion was necessary. I will comment again AFTER I read the story. Steve
Vietnam Vet 69-70 - Semper Fi
Before continuing I think it is very important that each person read both Ostromecki's and Horton's remarks and come to their own conclusions. It is not a simple he's right or he's wrong senerio.
The biggest problem I have with the removal of Walt Ostromecki is that the board overrode the results of an election by the membership. That action should only occur when there is clear evidence of intention by the elected govenor to actually hurt the ANA and its members. In this case Horton sites dishonesty and lost trust to the ANA board. He fails to show that dishonesty and lost trust also passes to the membership who voted for Ostromecki.
I am also concerned in the apparent direction this board is now taking regarding decisions it makes in closed sessions. All open board meetings report votes and who supports or does not support each motion. Based on what Bill Horton wrote this week, it is expected that all members will publically support any actions taken by the board. This means to me that in a 5 to 4 vote in closed session involving granting sponsorship and partnering with a commercial trade show, that the 4 desenting board members cannot communicate to the members that they disagreed with the decision. This could have a bad result if the board member wanted to run for reelection.
I have been an ANA member for 21 years and I can recall reading about a lot of infighting and "old boys club" stuff. One thing is plenty clear to me. The membership of the ANA has been stalled at about 30,000 for many years. It should be at least around the 100,000 mark just based on current popularity of numismatics. How we grow this organization is certainly a high priority for the board. But how the board is perceived by the membership should be an even higher priority. In the end, if those of you who are not ANA members now want to make a difference in how this hobby is run, maybe you should consider joining.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Where does their money go? Where's the accounting?
It either needs a benevolent dictator to get the egos back in line or Congress should consider disbanding it.
<< <i>The ANA reminds me of a train wreck at this juncture.
Where does their money go? Where's the accounting?
It either needs a benevolent dictator to get the egos back in line or Congress should consider disbanding it. >>
An audit by an independent company wouldn't be out of the question.
For those who want to join the ANA - I do have applications available - just e-mail me your mailing address and I'll not only send it to you but will sponsor you as well. The e-mail address is info@dorancoins.com.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
<< <i>Got my CW today and read the board's response - Well, my response is still "THROW THE BUMS OUT". (and the Executive Director) I'll vote for Walt and any other candidate that pledges to clean house!! >>
As far as to "THROW THE BUMS OUT" - I have to agree with you 1000%
<< <i>As far as to "THROW THE BUMS OUT" - I have to agree with you 1000%
I'm reserving final opinion on most issues until I can read the CoinWorld response. (Mine apparently is delivered by the slowest squirrel headed west). I also think the ANA paper of record (Numismatist) should properly handle the issue...but we shall see.
But I most definitely agree with your assessment of the confidentiality agreement. I believe that there may be a very limited number of issues that "require" closed sessions, but it's absurd that anyone would even pretend that voting out an elected official in closed session is acceptable.
The next election may be interesting if for no other reason than that there is actually an issue to base ones vote on, and not just based on name recognition as in the past.
<< <i>
<< <i>As far as to "THROW THE BUMS OUT" - I have to agree with you 1000%
I'm reserving final opinion on most issues until I can read the CoinWorld response. (Mine apparently is delivered by the slowest squirrel headed west). I also think the ANA paper of record (Numismatist) should properly handle the issue...but we shall see.
But I most definitely agree with your assessment of the confidentiality agreement. I believe that there may be a very limited number of issues that "require" closed sessions, but it's absurd that anyone would even pretend that voting out an elected official in closed session is acceptable.
The next election may be interesting if for no other reason than that there is actually an issue to base ones vote on, and not just based on name recognition as in the past. >>
The Ostromecki fiasco will haunt those on the ANA board who plan to run for re-election next year (2007). When something like this happens, it becomes one thing that people will not forget. I believe that the majority of the ANA members will make the right choice on who will represent them. The time has come for the 30,000+ members of the ANA like myself to inform the board that "we are watching what you do, and should you do something that the majority is in total disagreement with, you will be judged by democratic means!"
Now, as I said in one of the previous posts, if you want to join the ANA, please send an e-mail at info@dorancoins.com, and I will send an application to you and also will sponsor you.
<< <i>The time has come for the 30,000+ members of the ANA like myself to inform the board that "we are watching what you do, and should you do something that the majority is in total disagreement with, you will be judged by democratic means!" >>
Absolutely!!
Barry (current member, but not sure how much longer)
<< <i>I've considered joining ANA recently. With all this stink in the air now though, I believe I'll pass. Maybe after they get some issues resolved, I'll reconsider. >>
It takes active members to get things resolved, not people that want to join later! Resolution takes involvement, not sitting on the sidelines!
THE ANA BOARD OF GOVERNORS SHOULD NOT OVERRIDE THE VOTE OF THE MEMBERSHIP UNLESS GRIEVOUS HARM HAS BEEN DONE TO THE MEMBERSHIP AND THE ORGANIZATION.
All the current issues with the ANA should be coming to a head on Wednesday thru Friday, April 5th thru April 7th. On those dates the Board of Governors will meet in Atlanta to discuss board business and to present to the membership its vision for the future. The ANA board physically meets only three times a year unless there is an emergency. They meet at the annual Spring show, the annual Summer show and in Colorado Springs each October. With today's instant communications, I am hopeful that information coming out of Atlanta is communicated to the membership quickly. Otherwise, we may have to wait a couple of more weeks to read it in Coin World and Numismatic News. Wouldn't it be great if the ANA web site provided immediate information for members? Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
the ANA and it's Board of Governors shouldn't hold private sessions and withhold the proceedings from it's members only to use the Editorial page of Coin World to air the laundry.
in a word, it's despicable.
Donn- But we were just starting to have fun! Please, let's not muddy the waters with facts.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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I read both sides too and don't know any of the players involved, but every complaint that Ostromecki stated was countered with common sense replies. How can you work with someone who tells you one thing then goes behind your back and says the opposite. Maybe some of you think that is ok and if you do don't ever take on a position of responsibility in the corporate world, you won't last long.
One particular incident is telling, Ostromecki goes home from San Francisco because his credit card is over its limit and he can't pay for a room. The ANA then offers to prepay his room, but he still leaves. Come on guys is this someone you want championing your hobby?
The guy doesn't have an email account so he says, but then later admits he did but he was scared of it because of what happened in his divorce.
<< <i>In my opinion, this is the crux of the problem regarding the Ostromecki incident:
the ANA and it's Board of Governors shouldn't hold private sessions and withhold the proceedings from it's members only to use the Editorial page of Coin World to air the laundry.
in a word, it's despicable. >>
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Al. This thing got blown out of proportion when the naming of the Museum and subsequent proceedings fell through. The guys who started it aren't even mentioned again. Poor Walt got thrown under the bus on this deal, and with that said...I will conclude with:
Let this thing go.
When a person becomes the central focus in an organization, the whole organization suffers.
The ANA is built by member collectors/dealers. To say you will quit being a member or that you will not join as a member because of some actions that are out of all of our control is not prudent management of one's own personality. It's like saying, "I am not going to collect coins anymore cuz of the injustices at the ANA".
Opinions and judgements ought to be left for coins, not people.
The ANA is YOU and ME, people. I feel bad for Walt, Bill, and the whole lot of them to have this crap shoveled back and forth throughout coin publications and forums such as this and NGC's site.
It's getting to be like two siblings bickering. Cripes, let this go already ! And to talk about a person's financial woes , divorce and personal business is a travesty on these boards or in a national publication. Let's change the name of COIN WORLD to the ENQUIRER if we are going to turn this fiasco into a personality bashing ordeal.
When names and personal attacks are the discussion, the coin world suffers.
We got enough troubles without making more. It's true that the pen is mightier than the sword ! The ANA ought to shut it's collective trap.
Damage control often times is a matter of just shutting up.
Here in the state of Florida, we have a state law referred to as the Sunshine Law. It basically says that any business that is conducted by any elected official must be done in the Sunshine. Meaning in the light of day and subject to the review of all the citizens of Florida. It is actually illegal here to hold private meetings by elected officials where business is conducted behind the backs of voters and tax payers.
I suggested to Gary that someone should propose a by-law amendment to the ANA that would require all business be conducted in the open and always subject to the review of its members.
What stinks about the Ostromecki situation most - is that we do not have the right under the by-laws of our organization to even know what happened. This is wrong and is a situation that should be addressed.
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<< <i>I had a discussion with Gary Lewis (past president of the ANA) yesterday about this situation. While I don't wish to presume to share his opinions with you I would like to share my view.
Here in the state of Florida, we have a state law referred to as the Sunshine Law. It basically says that any business that is conducted by any elected official must be done in the Sunshine. Meaning in the light of day and subject to the review of all the citizens of Florida. It is actually illegal here to hold private meetings by elected officials where business is conducted behind the backs of voters and tax payers.
I suggested to Gary that someone should propose a by-law amendment to the ANA that would require all business be conducted in the open and always subject to the review of its members.
What stinks about the Ostromecki situation most - is that we do not have the right under the by-laws of our organization to even know what happened. This is wrong and is a situation that should be addressed. >>
As members who vote for these people every two years, we do have the right to know. I think that the 'Sunshine Law" needs to apply to the ANA as they are federally chartered. A by-law amendment regarding this is very much needed. The reason the ANA "circled their wagons" on the Ostromecki matter is that it goes back to them versus ASA/Accugrade and the ramblings of then-board member (and current VP) Barry Stupler. Stuppler did most of the same things as Ostromecki but in his (Stuppler's) case got most of the ANA board and officers sued by the Hagers (owners of ASA/Accugrade). And when it was all over, all Stuppler got was a slap on the wrist by his fellow ANA board members, which is much less that what Ostromecki got. I feel that the cronyism of the ANA will soon catch up with them, and with the Ostromecki flap, it can't be too soon!