There's this raw coin in the ANR auction... (updated with link to coins)
Barry
Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
I asked a dealer to look at a few coins for me in the ANR auction. We get to talking about another coin in the auction, which I did not ask him to evaluate (it was the next lot up from one I did have him look at). He likes it and asks me why I didn't ask him to look at it - there's a similar PCGS coin I did have him look at (which he didn't like).
Me: It's raw.
Him: Oh, you're one of those.
Me: I once got burned on a raw coin in an auction. Never again.
Him: I like the raw one better than the PCGS coin. Think about it.
Me: I'll think about it (yeah, right)
My feeling is it isn't slabbed for a reason, even if he did like it better than the slabbed one. What would you do?
Me: It's raw.
Him: Oh, you're one of those.
Me: I once got burned on a raw coin in an auction. Never again.
Him: I like the raw one better than the PCGS coin. Think about it.
Me: I'll think about it (yeah, right)
My feeling is it isn't slabbed for a reason, even if he did like it better than the slabbed one. What would you do?
0
Comments
<< <i>Him: I like the raw one better than the PCGS coin. >>
I guess I would want a little more of a detailed description, and an opinion as to why it's raw.
One of those what? People who don't like problem coins? I would ask him to clarify his statement if I were you.
Even if an TPgrader looked at it for me and said it was 'ok', I'd still realize I risk it being body bagged for some reason or another. I don't think you can get that guarantee until it's actually holdered, and then, as with holdered coins that have great toning, there's no guarantee if you break it out, it won't get body bagged as AT at another time...especially if the tpg is going through a cautious phase.
You could call ANR and ask them about the coin. They're a great bunch of people. I believe their honest. They likely got the coin from a collector who never had them holdered to begin with. Of course, there's no guarantee.
I've purchased raw coins from Stacks three times. One, I actually payed 5 digits for and was rewarded with it being holdered and given a grade only 1 step below what I had hoped for. The two other coins; one was body bagged and obviously so, the other wasn't what Stack's had claimed it was, and I learned a lot about coins (they did take it back believe it or not).
Tempting when you see a really nice looking coin without a holder, but worrisome nonetheless.
M.
<< <i>I do trust the dealer. However, it obviously got bagged by PCGS, so if and when I decide to sell, that could be a problem. >>
This wouldnt happen to be that spotted wild blue toned bust half is it ....
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Please remember that all coins do not have to be encapsulated to be valuable!!!
Most professionals and specialist collectors will buy unencapsulated coins because they do know what they are looking at.
Coins were not produced for collecting.
Numismatists have decided to do that after the government makes the coins for commerce.
Long time and serious numismatists do not have to have all of their coins encapsulated.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
If you are strongly considering the exit strategy, and the coin is expensive, I would pass. I think you have recent experience in this area which is justifiably causing you to be cautious.
With all due respect to Julian (whom I respect very immensely), expensive slabbed coins appear to be more liquid than raw.
One of those what? People who don't like problem coins? I would ask him to clarify his statement if I were you.
It was said in jest, but what Julain meant was one of those who doesn't buy raw, expensive coins.
It depends on the context. I once bought a high grade lettered edge wreath cent from a Superior sale (Frankenfield), ex. Norweb. The coin had never been slabbed by anyone (ie, it had never been bodybagged). It had a pedigree back 50+ years so I felt reasonably sure it would slab.
There are many raw coins in Stacks' sales that I bid on (after having a dealer examine them for me first).
<< <i>If you like the coin who cares as long as you understand what you are buying. >>
What would you do?
i would only buy coins that are raw or slabbed or whatever
THAT YOU HAVE EXAMINED YOURSELF IN HAND SIGHT SEEN AND ARE COMFORTABLE WITH AS TO THE PRICE YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY based on your experience
if you cant do all of the above......................................then let the buyer beware
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
Make it memorable.
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
of the rest in the auction.
too bad we cannot follow this coin as it goes to a TPG after
this auction and see the results?
did a forum member win it?
From one idiot to another.
I must say that it is fitting.
Lot 35
Lot 36
If anyone has an idea as to why PCGS slabbed lot 35, but not lot 36, I'd like to hear it. Do you think the cheek was worked to hide the X?
As Mr Eureka once stated - the TPG's tend to punish human mishandling higher than commerce mishandling. This is a great example of such.
The person who bought the raw coin now likely will need to deal with one of the grading services, in hopes of getting the grade he thinks it will bring. This type of hassle I have learned to avoid. I leave submissions to other people.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Edit: Now that we know what you are seeking, we will surely run you up next time around.
Btw, I'll take Lot 36 over 35 any day.
I'm curious why the one coin with the major scratch got slabbed and the other with "SI" did not. Hmmmm....
Either way, I would have gone for the raw coin, but that's just me.
I trust very few dealers who tell me that a raw coin is a better value than a slabbed one, since most are trying to turn over their body-bagged inventory. I make a big exception for Julian and perhaps four other dealers I have met in the last 30 years.
Why did one get slabbed and not the other? Possibly only one was submitted.
Of the two I like the one with the very light initials better than the slabbed one with the heavy gash in the obverse field up to the chin, scratches on the head, the multiple scraches on the reverse, and what looks like a bad repair job on the reverse in the field above the eagles left wing. I would have netted the PCGS about two grades lower than the raw coin. The only reason I can think of that it brought that much was because someone bought the number on the holder.
My first impression seing both of them is that the raw piece is a nice coin but unfortunately with a minor problem. I see the PCGS piece and think "It's a good thing this is a rare and popular coins, because otherwise this is a piece of junk."
Edit: One more thing: call me any name or hurl any insult that you like. I am not sure that I will ever purchase a $65,000 coin (ie. lot 36), but if I do, it will be holdered. Being idealistic is one thing and practical another.
I trust the dealer's opinion, however, that doesn't mean I'm willing to buy a raw coin worth that much money. It also comes down to the ease of future salability.
Why did one get slabbed and not the other? Possibly only one was submitted.
This is ANR, not Stacks. I'm sure the coin was submitted and BBed. I don't understand why it was BBed, after seeing the gouge in the field of lot 35, yet it was slabbed.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
1) If the coin is over $100 where the value is tied significantly to condition, it has to be in a PCGS, NGC, or ANACS holder.
2) If the coin is over $500, it's got to be in a PCGS, NGC, or ANACS holder or I refuse to even consider it.
3) If I feel even slightly uncomfortible about anything, I dont buy.
Bottom line, it's your money. If you dont like ANYTHING about the transaction, dont do it.
David
This is really the heart of the "classics" argument over moderns, and the ultra rarities show it well. The value is not in the plastic, but in the coin. There is nothing wrong with collecting plastic (I'll be the first to admit I have some collected plastic), but you should know what you are collecting. A 1792 Half Disme is a true collector's coin, with no respect to plastic.
FWIW, there are many overgraded raw coins in auctions. There are also many overgraded slabbed coins in auctions. Remember that incredibly butt-ugly 1927-S $20 in the MS-67 slab that was shown on here a few weeks ago? Buy the coin, not the plastic.
Tom D.