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Ouch!

smallstockssmallstocks Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
Ok. Yesterday I sing PSA's praises. Today is another day. Just had grades pop on three 1955 Topps cards, including a gorgeous Banks and Rizzuto I have owned since the 1970's. They were all graded as evidence of trimming. Zero Chance. I made a call and they said they would review them again. I am truly hoping they do the right thing here as these cards are absolutely not trimmed!

Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports

Comments

  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    Not surprised. I had to send in a '69 Johnny Bench three times that was purchased out of the pack by my brother in 1969 before they would holder it. First time it came back trimmed. Second time it was a 6. Third time it got the 8 it deserved.



    Stay classy,


    Ron
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
  • MuckyMuttMuckyMutt Posts: 803
    Wow, I hope that turns out well for you. I sometimes wonder how they make-up some of these claims of trimming, recoloring, etc. Glad you were able to call and have them review the cards. I had grades popped yesterday and they sent the notice of mailing at the same time - so they were gone before I would have had a chance to call. Luckily, I got the grade I expected.

    Good Luck - and let us know how it turns out.
    << image >>
  • JESSEJAMESJESSEJAMES Posts: 124
    I hear ya... they didn't have scissors or razors in the 1970s...
    Always collecting vintage basketball and any ABA memorabilia.
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭


    << <i> I sometimes wonder how they make-up some of these claims of trimming, recoloring, etc. >>



    I would say the process is more akin to medical school applicants. If there is a question or some subjectivity - PSA [and SGC] would rather err on the side of conservatism and call an unaltered card 'trimmed' than risk calling a trimmed card 'authentic and unaltered'. Just like at medical school - applicant boards would rather deny admission to a very well-qualified candidate who may be a great doctor than run the risk of granting admission to a candidate that ends up being a horrible doctor.
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • JESSEJAMESJESSEJAMES Posts: 124
    Here's my take... trimming and recoloring, for the most part, is a very elementary feat... Only a moron would recolor or trim a card (unless you are a professional and are VERY good of course). It is very easy for a PSA grader to detect recoloring. A couple swipes under a black light or a quick check under the loupe and it is easily detected. Trimming is a bit tougher, but after measuring the card and checking the edges for the proper texture you can usually tell if something is not right.

    If it looks like a bad card and smells and tastes like one, it probably is one. Trust me, if the grader isn't pretty sure that a card is trimmed, they will not deam it as doctored. That is a quick way to tick of your customers.
    Always collecting vintage basketball and any ABA memorabilia.
  • smallstockssmallstocks Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I hear ya... they didn't have scissors or razors in the 1970s... If it looks like a bad card and smells and tastes like one, it probably is one. Trust me, if the grader isn't pretty sure that a card is trimmed, they will not deam it as doctored. That is a quick way to tick of your customers. >>



    Yes they had scissors and razors back then but the hobby was very different and it is/was very rare to find anyone doctoring cards back then.

    And yes, they do make mistakes. I had a 1970 Seaver grade out as trimmed. Wrong! I had pulled it from a pack myself back in the 1970's. To PSA's credit, they looked it over again and changed it to a PSA 9. If not fractionally OC it would have been a 10 for certain.

    Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
  • JESSEJAMESJESSEJAMES Posts: 124
    Sometimes detecting trimming CAN be tricky... A decent amount of times, card sizes can be a decent amount off size just because it came that way from the factory. Coloring is a different story, as are spotting counterfeits. There is no excuse to ever screw that up.
    Always collecting vintage basketball and any ABA memorabilia.
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Ok. Yesterday I sing PSA's praises. Today is another day. Just had grades pop on three 1955 Topps cards, including a gorgeous Banks and Rizzuto I have owned since the 1970's. They were all graded as evidence of trimming. Zero Chance. I made a call and they said they would review them again. I am truly hoping they do the right thing here as these cards are absolutely not trimmed! >>




    Unless you pulled them from the pack I don't know how you can say there's zero chance tbey were trimmed.
  • JESSEJAMESJESSEJAMES Posts: 124
    I agree... The chances are unlikely, but to make the comment "zero chance," is not accurate.
    Always collecting vintage basketball and any ABA memorabilia.
  • smallstockssmallstocks Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Ok. Yesterday I sing PSA's praises. Today is another day. Just had grades pop on three 1955 Topps cards, including a gorgeous Banks and Rizzuto I have owned since the 1970's. They were all graded as evidence of trimming. Zero Chance. I made a call and they said they would review them again. I am truly hoping they do the right thing here as these cards are absolutely not trimmed! >>




    Unless you pulled them from the pack I don't know how you can say there's zero chance tbey were trimmed. >>



    Let's just say extremely slim.

    Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
  • JESSEJAMESJESSEJAMES Posts: 124
    i would love to see a scan of them.
    Always collecting vintage basketball and any ABA memorabilia.
  • 1960toppsguy1960toppsguy Posts: 1,127 ✭✭
    Hey, the bottom line is the grading fees are not high enough to cover the payroll, lets send back 25% of the submissions twice, and everything will work out in the end. That's marketing 101, and that's how they get you. Submit 1 card 3 different times and it finally finds it's way in a holder. It's happened to everybody who ever posted on this forum!image
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Ok. Yesterday I sing PSA's praises. Today is another day. Just had grades pop on three 1955 Topps cards, including a gorgeous Banks and Rizzuto I have owned since the 1970's. They were all graded as evidence of trimming. Zero Chance. I made a call and they said they would review them again. I am truly hoping they do the right thing here as these cards are absolutely not trimmed! >>




    Unless you pulled them from the pack I don't know how you can say there's zero chance tbey were trimmed. >>



    Let's just say extremely slim. >>



    If the odds are extremely thin then it really isn't that big of a deal-- like '60'stoppsguy said just resubmit them when you get them back. It's an extra 25$ or so in grading fees, so while it's a pain in the rump it's not the end of the free world. Although I would measure them closely when you get them back and make sure.

    I've had this happen many times as well, so I can empathise.
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    "Hey, the bottom line is the grading fees are not high enough to cover the payroll, lets send back 25% of the submissions twice, and everything will work out in the end. That's marketing 101, and that's how they get you. Submit 1 card 3 different times and it finally finds it's way in a holder. It's happened to everybody who ever posted on this forum!"


    If such a scheme was ever proven, it would be a wonderful class action lawsuit.




    Stay classy,

    Rom
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
  • 1960toppsguy1960toppsguy Posts: 1,127 ✭✭
    There are many things that one can never prove, but one cannot deny the obvious. It is as if each grader must be held accountable for how many cards they return each day, week or month as trimmed, altered or over or under sized. Otherwise how could you submit the same card 2, 3, or 4 times before someone puts it in a holder, which as I mentioned happens to everyone, even the most loyal consumers 20% to 25% percent of the time . . .image
  • nightcrawlernightcrawler Posts: 5,110 ✭✭
    Gradeing companies are just like judges in a boxing match, they all see something different. When you send a card in you don't know which grader you'll get and how he feels about the particular card you've sent in. If they grade them to high they lose credibility, and when they grade them to low the customers are unhappy. I'm glad I'm only in it for the love of the game, ha ha. For display purposes I don't care for the holders but a PSA pristine 10 Reg Leach rc would look awsome, anybody got one image.
  • NewJerseyMeatHookNewJerseyMeatHook Posts: 1,441
    Why the huge debate, fellas? I just send 'em back to PSA and they receive a grade. 100% of the time. I had a 1970 PSA 8 - that was marked trimmed first submission - bouncing around in it's holder.

    Even I felt guilty about selling that one.
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    I think it's important to remember that at the end of the day, the good folks at PSA are running a BUSINESS, and as is the case with all businesses, they need revenue. Let's say they do in fact purposely return cards as not holdered because it didn't meet size requirement or evidence of trimming. Is that so bad? We all know you can get around this by resubmitting until you get the grade you want. I would much rather have this system in place than have them mark up the prices for grading on ALL catergories. That would be bad for collectors and dealers and bad for business in general.

    The bottom line is, PSA is making collectors and dealers A LOT more money than raw cards. With all the money being made by all parties involved, why rock the boat?

    Just consider the inconvenience of getting a rejected card a part of the business and move on. image
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
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